Author Topic: The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40?  (Read 1090 times)

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Offline OutWest

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Re: The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2023, 04:58:20 PM »
~
FAQ: According to a number of New Testament passages, Jesus' crucified dead
body was restored to life prior to sunrise. How then can the day that the women
visited his tomb be counted as the third day per Luke 24:21-23?

REPLY: Whereas the Jews' liturgical days start and stop with sunset, their civil days
back then began at 06:am and ended at 06:pm, resulting in a twelve-hour day
regardless of the season. (John 11:9-10)

For example: sunrise in Jerusalem April 5, 2023 occurred at 06:23 am which
would've been 23 minutes past the beginning of a civil day back in Jesus' era. So; if
Jesus did his thing, and the women theirs, sometime in those 23 minutes before
sunrise, then he and they were within the limits of a new day rather than the tail
end of a previous night.
_

Offline rstrats

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Re: The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2023, 09:24:48 PM »
Quote from: OutWest,
[/quote

I'm sorry, but I don't see what your post has to do with my question.   

Offline OutWest

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Re: The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2023, 03:09:08 AM »
~
FAQ: Was it really necessary to restore Jesus' crucified dead body to life? Why
couldn't it remain deceased and him taken Heaven in spirit form?

REPLY: Jesus' crucifixion was an adequate atonement for people's sins, but by itself
wasn't enough for someone to obtain exoneration.

Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered over to death for our sins, and was restored to life
for our justification.

The Greek word translated "justification" is dikaiosis (dik-ah'-yo-sis) which means
acquittal; defined as an adjudication of innocence.

People merely forgiven still carry a load of guilt; viz: they have a criminal record.
The resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body allows God to wipe their records
clean so that on the books, it's as though they've never been anything but 100%
innocent so that when the books are opened per Rev 20:11-15 there will be nothing
found in them with which folks may be accused.

1Cor 15:17 . . If Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

This clearing of one's guilt that I'm talking about is obtained via the kindness and
generosity of God through belief in the resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body.
If the Devil can succeed in convincing people that Jesus' crucified body is still dead
or, even better yet, make them question whether the man even existed at all; then
they will fail to obtain an acquittal, and consequently end up coming out on the
wrong side of things.
_

Offline John

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Re: The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2023, 06:00:03 PM »
Quote " FAQ: Was it really necessary to restore Jesus' crucified dead body to life? Why
couldn't it remain deceased and him taken Heaven in spirit form?

REPLY: Jesus' crucifixion was an adequate atonement for people's sins, but by itself
wasn't enough for someone to obtain exoneration. " unquote.

There is a simpler  explanation.anation why Jesus rose from the dead.
In rising he demonstrated that he has dealt with our si  and that death was defeated.
Rather than believe  a myth  we have solid  facts.

Offline OutWest

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Re: The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2023, 06:30:15 PM »
~
Rom 3:23 . . All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

In other words: God has made His own personal sinless perfection the standard by
which everyone is evaluated. Obviously then; no one among the Jews or the
Gentiles-- except for Christ --has ever, nor will ever, measure up; not even the
holiest people that one can imagine, e.g. Noah, Daniel, or Job; and those were
some very righteous guys. (Ezek 14:12-20)

The thing is: Christ's crucifixion and resurrection satisfies justice for people's sins,
and gives them a rating of innocence and exoneration that they could never in a
million years attain on their own. But if the plan of salvation was finished at that
point, they would still be short of the glory of God, viz: the ultimate goal of
salvation is God's own personal sinless perfection which, again, is something that
people could never in a million years attain on their own.

Now with justice satisfied and out of the way by means of Christ's crucifixion and
resurrection; the supreme being is at liberty to become extremely benevolent with
a remarkable act of God that when fully completed will equip folks with a personal
sinless perfection comparable to His own.

2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given us everything we need for life and
godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and
goodness. Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises,
so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
_

Offline rstrats

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Re: The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2023, 08:57:36 PM »
~
FAQ: Was it really necessary to restore Jesus' crucified dead body to life? Why
couldn't it remain deceased and him taken Heaven in spirit form?

REPLY: Jesus' crucifixion was an adequate atonement for people's sins, but by itself
wasn't enough for someone to obtain exoneration.

Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered over to death for our sins, and was restored to life
for our justification.

The Greek word translated "justification" is dikaiosis (dik-ah'-yo-sis) which means
acquittal; defined as an adjudication of innocence.

People merely forgiven still carry a load of guilt; viz: they have a criminal record.
The resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body allows God to wipe their records
clean so that on the books, it's as though they've never been anything but 100%
innocent so that when the books are opened per Rev 20:11-15 there will be nothing
found in them with which folks may be accused.

1Cor 15:17 . . If Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

This clearing of one's guilt that I'm talking about is obtained via the kindness and
generosity of God through belief in the resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body.
If the Devil can succeed in convincing people that Jesus' crucified body is still dead
or, even better yet, make them question whether the man even existed at all; then
they will fail to obtain an acquittal, and consequently end up coming out on the
wrong side of things.
_


Your post deals with issues for a different topic.

Offline rstrats

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Re: The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2023, 09:03:51 PM »
~
Rom 3:23 . . All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

In other words: God has made His own personal sinless perfection the standard by
which everyone is evaluated. Obviously then; no one among the Jews or the
Gentiles-- except for Christ --has ever, nor will ever, measure up; not even the
holiest people that one can imagine, e.g. Noah, Daniel, or Job; and those were
some very righteous guys. (Ezek 14:12-20)

The thing is: Christ's crucifixion and resurrection satisfies justice for people's sins,
and gives them a rating of innocence and exoneration that they could never in a
million years attain on their own. But if the plan of salvation was finished at that
point, they would still be short of the glory of God, viz: the ultimate goal of
salvation is God's own personal sinless perfection which, again, is something that
people could never in a million years attain on their own.

Now with justice satisfied and out of the way by means of Christ's crucifixion and
resurrection; the supreme being is at liberty to become extremely benevolent with
a remarkable act of God that when fully completed will equip folks with a personal
sinless perfection comparable to His own.

2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given us everything we need for life and
godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and
goodness. Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises,
so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
_


Again, your post is dealing with issues for a different topic.

Offline OutWest

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Re: The Messiah and the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2023, 01:46:07 PM »
~
Jesus' crucifixion, and the subsequent resurrection of his dead body, are sometimes
called substitutionary. But according to the Bible, he took people along with him into
those events, which makes his crucifixion and resurrection joint actions wherein his
believing followers participated.

Rom 6:3 . .Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus
were baptized into His death?

Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

Col 3:1-4 . . For you died when Christ died

Rom 6:4-5 . .We are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was
raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in
newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we
shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

Eph 2:6 . . God raised us up with Christ

Col 2:12 . . Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him

It's no doubt possible to allegorize the above passages, but I strongly suggest taking
them as-is. I don't know how God went about making Jesus' followers joint participants
in his crucifixion and resurrection, but then to this day I still haven't a clue yet how God
went about making Adam's posterity joint participants in the forbidden fruit incident per
Rom 5:12-21.

There is an obvious benefit to all this. Jesus went to the cross bearing guilt, but was
restored to life without guilt (Rom 6:10-11). So then, all those unified with Jesus in his
death, burial, and resurrection are also back from the dead without guilt, i.e. they came
back with him 100% innocent.

Rom 8:34 . .Who then will condemn us? Will Christ Jesus? No, for he is the one who
died for us and was raised to life for us.
_

 

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