Author Topic: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !  (Read 7300 times)

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Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2021, 01:41:17 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
I have agreed with you that there is a group predestined from the foundation of the world who I believe form the bride of Chist.

I am not advocating everyone will be saved what I am saying everyone will have the opportunity to be saved through the blood of Christ but that choice is ours not Gods and we are saved by

    29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

 30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

 31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these   

           Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;     


So the rest of us are saved by obeying the above but it always boils down to us loving of our own freewill this is what God wants our Love.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi Dave, we are not in agreement, Gods Love is for only one people. I never heard of what you espouse.

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2021, 04:04:01 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
Thank you for your reply but we are in agreement with what you say there is a group predestined from the foundation of the world all those chosen by God on this we can agree I hope.

What we don't agree on is there is another group who through the first group will chose to Love God through Jesus Christ and be accepted by God and will inherit eternal life how many this will be I have no idea but this group is not predestined by God they must Choose to Love God of there own free will this is essential what  what God cannot do is to predestine us to Love him it would not be love it would be programming we would be robots.

Joh 3:16  ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 
Joh 3:17  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 
Joh 3:18  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.     
   

God Loved the whole world not jest part of it  and to be saved we must believe in his only begotten son Jesus Christ and to believe we must be told who he is and what he has said and what he has done and this is the job of the chosen ones to preach the word of God
and for this privilege they have had to pay a great price here on earth for that reason they will receive a great reward the are the bride of Christ chosen from the foundation of the world.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2021, 11:28:49 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
Thank you for your reply but we are in agreement with what you say there is a group predestined from the foundation of the world all those chosen by God on this we can agree I hope.

What we don't agree on is there is another group who through the first group will chose to Love God through Jesus Christ and be accepted by God and will inherit eternal life how many this will be I have no idea but this group is not predestined by God they must Choose to Love God of there own free will this is essential what  what God cannot do is to predestine us to Love him it would not be love it would be programming we would be robots.

Joh 3:16  ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.     
   

God Loved the whole world not jest part of it  and to be saved we must believe in his only begotten son Jesus Christ and to believe we must be told who he is and what he has said and what he has done and this is the job of the chosen ones to preach the word of God
and for this privilege they have had to pay a great price here on earth for that reason they will receive a great reward the are the bride of Christ chosen from the foundation of the world.

Love and Peace
Dave

No sir we are not in agreement.

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2021, 01:03:21 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
Well thats a shame if you are right and only those chosen from the foundation of the world will be saved where dose love come into it because as far as I can remember none of those chosen loved God or Christ before they where chosen.
So why are we commanded to

            And he said to him, ?You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.?
Matthew 22:37-‬40 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.22.37-40.ESV     


Why should we do this if God had already chosen who he would save.

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.22.37-40.ESV

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2021, 01:16:31 PM »
Eternal Love for the Reprobate !


John 17:23-24

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

If God Loved all men without exception, this implies that all men without exception were in a Eternal Union with Christ before the foundation of the world.

This would also mean that the children of the wicked one, the tares as described here Matt 13:38

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

That they were Eternally Loved and in Union with Christ before the foundation of the world. Such thinking is utter madness and blasphemous.

Its to say that God so Loved the children of devil as He Loved Christ !

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2021, 01:23:55 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
Well thats a shame if you are right and only those chosen from the foundation of the world will be saved where dose love come into it because as far as I can remember none of those chosen loved God or Christ before they where chosen.
So why are we commanded to

            And he said to him, ?You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.?
Matthew 22:37-‬40 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.22.37-40.ESV     


Why should we do this if God had already chosen who he would save.

Love and Peace
Dave

You seem to be confused Dave, this thread isnt about God commanding men to do this or that, but that its a myth that God loves all men without exception. And Gods Love for man is the catalyst for His Choice of them .
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.22.37-40.ESV

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2021, 02:04:13 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
Jest a thought.

    Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance

   Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you     


So dose this apply to God dose he love his enemy satan and his children?

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Primrose

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2021, 10:21:07 AM »


I just think that to get a more complete understanding we need to look more fully at the scriptures and not just some of them .

In Matthew 5:43-45 , here we have Jesus addressing the love of God to be the strongest characteristic of  being children of the most High.

Not as the world describes love today but as God says, which is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."

 God cannot be different from His children.
If by God's grace, His children are given the power and guidance to love their enemies.

God is outside of time and is omnipotent and omnipresent. God is omniscient,  knowing all from the beginning to the end, knowing who will respond to Him, from before the creation of the world, making them their own and His people.  As God draws everyone but only a few respond.

It must be a two-way process, whereby a few respond.

If it wasn't, then the bible wouldn't mention freewill and resistance to God because without freewill they wouldn't be able to resist to His grace.

Examples:

Draw close to God and He will draw close to you. James 4:8

In Hosea 11:1-4
When Israel was a child, I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son.
As they called them,
So they went from them;
They sacrificed to the Baals,
And burned incense to carved images.

I taught Ephraim to walk,
Taking them by their arms;
But they did not know that I healed them.

I drew them with  gentle cords,
With bands of love,
And I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck.
I stooped and fed them.

I like that bit about God stooping because in His kind and benevolent nature He comes to us at our level, as He did in Jesus.

Only the point I'm trying to make is that, here God is calling Israel His own. He called them but they didn't respond.

There is so much about the relationship between God and Israel, that it does surprise me when for example some friends of mine who are  five point Calvinists talk of irresistible grace, and limited atonement.

Another example is :

Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! Matthew 23:37
In the KJV this says "and you would not."

Stephen here is addressing freewill, with  Israel resisting the Holy Spirit.

You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Acts 7:5

This is not just Israel but they are an example.

 

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