Author Topic: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !  (Read 7290 times)

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Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2021, 10:03:23 AM »
If God foreknew all without exception, then He predestinated all without exception, if He predestinated all without exception, then He called everyone without exception.

Rom 8:29-30

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And if He called all without exception, then He Justified all without exception, and if He Justified all without exception, then He Glorified all without exception. This must be True if God Loved all without exception !

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2021, 10:18:00 AM »
Hi Brightfame52
Thank you for your concern but don't  worry I am quite happy to believe Gods word which is.

   Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life       

So if God says he loves the world then God loves the world and everything in it saint and sinner alike and thats why he sent his only begotten son to die for the sins of the world and I take that to mean the whole world and everyone in it.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2021, 04:13:02 PM »
He called or named all without exception!

And if God called [named] all without exception, Them, He Justified all without exception.

Interesting also about the word called here in vs 30, its not the same word in vs 28 where the word for call is klētos which means:


called, invited (to a banquet)

a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ

This word means more of an invite or a Divine summons

The word for called in vs 30 is the word kaleō which means:


to call

a) to call aloud, utter in a loud voice

b) to invite

2) to call i.e. to name, by name

a) to give a name to

1) to receive the name of, receive as a name

2) to give some name to one, call his name

It means to call by Name, or name someone, for instance here Matt 1:21

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

So this call refers to God naming those that are His. Remember in John 10:

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

So the called in Rom 8:30 is the naming of the Sheep, and so as we continue to look at those God Loved, if its all mankind without exception, then all mankind without exception has been named, all are His Sheep, His own Sheep. If that is True, then we have serious problems with what Jesus said to some of the unbelieving jews of His day, notice John 10:26

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Also, we have a problem with Jesus statement here in Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This would be a flat out lie and contradiction if Jesus Loved them, and they were His Sheep once, because its written here John 10:14

14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

So if Christ Loved them, He knew them as His Sheep, and that would make Christ a Liar if He states to them in Matt 7:23 He NEVER KNEW THEM !

All this is the ramifications of insisting that God,and the Lord Jesus Christ loved all mankind without exception, the scriptures lead to this conclusion !

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2021, 09:55:40 AM »
Hi Brightfame52
Thank you for your post to which I can agree there is a group predestined chosen from the foundation of the world as stated in scripture and they form the bride of Chist.
As the first Adam had his helper Eve so the last Adam also has a helper his bride the church all those who have been chosen from the beginning.
So through the preaching of the church the bride of Christ the rest of us can come to know God the Father through Christ and his bride and and most importantly to love God of our own free will this is what God wants for us to love him and each other.
So yes you are right there is a predestined group chosen by God but thats only half the story there is a much larger group who have chosen to love God and their neighbours.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2021, 03:54:17 PM »
Now them He called or named He also Justified, observe Rom 8:29

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Now remember, we are following the thought that God Loved all mankind without exception. And since He supposedly did, then He must have in Love Predestinated all mankind without exception unto the adoption of Children as stated in Eph 1:4-5

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Now, with that connection, All whom He predestinated He foreknew Paul says in Rom 8:

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So we arrive at our next step in God's predestination to them He loved, and that is them He Justified. So according to them who teach God Loved all men without exception, to be consistent, then they must believe and teach all men without exception are Justified before God. The word Justified is the greek word dikaioō and means:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

It means to be declared righteous.34

So everyone because God Loved them, are declared righteous, there should not be one unrighteous person of all mankind according to this view. Everyone is righteous, or else God's predestination is a farce and failure.

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2021, 01:44:02 PM »
Them he also glorified.

And finally, them that He Justified, them He also Glorified !

Rom 8:30

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Notice that scripture uses the past tense here, them He also glorified. All for whom God Loved have been and will be Glorified. They were glorified first of all when they rose together with their Glorious Head, when He was Glorified after having been raised up from the dead. Remember when Jesus said, speaking of His impending death Lk 24:26

26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

His Glory was entered into when He sat down at the Right Hand of God after completing the redemption of His People ! Heb 1:3

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This is of that Glory He had with the Father before the world was John 17:5

5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Now, when Christ was raised up to enter into this Glory, all for whom He represented also was raised up together with Him and also made to sit together with Him in heavenly Places Eph 2:6

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

In this connection, lets look at Col 3:

1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

I made this connection because its vital to the point I am making about those Christ died and rose in behalf of, were raised up with Him above where He sits at the right hand of God, and so do they.

Now in this connection, we should more clearly understand Christ words to Nicodemus John 3:3

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

This word born again is actually being born from above, so it can be read " Except a man be born from above, he cannot see or perceive the Kingdom of God.

Lets look at at a few other translations of this verse !

ISV Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you with certainty, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."

GWT Jesus replied to Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

YLT Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'


Its referring to a New Birth from above !

ESV Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In other words, unless one is born again anew out from above, where Christ and they in Him sit at the Right Hand of God, they cannot see the Kingdom of God.

Yes, to make it plain, only those Glorified together with Christ [Rom 8:30] are being born again anew, being born again requires having been raised up together with Christ at His resurrection and being seated at the Right Hand of God in Heavenly Places Eph 2:

6And hath raised us up together[Glorified], and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Now, if God Loved all without exception, then all them He Loved have been Glorified together with Him and will be born again from above.

Those of you who insist that God Loved all without exception, are insisting [ though unwittingly] that all without exception shall be born from above where they sit with Christ on God's Right hand, there is no way around it.38

But the truly enlightened know better, we know that all without exception were not raised up together with Christ and shall not be born anew from above, and so we rightly conclude, that God did not Love all men without exception !

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2021, 01:50:35 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
I have agreed with you that there is a group predestined from the foundation of the world who I believe form the bride of Chist.

I am not advocating everyone will be saved what I am saying everyone will have the opportunity to be saved through the blood of Christ but that choice is ours not Gods and we are saved by

    29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

 30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

 31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these   

           Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;     


So the rest of us are saved by obeying the above but it always boils down to us loving of our own freewill this is what God wants our Love.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2021, 01:38:12 PM »

Jn 3:16

John 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The World that God so Loved here in this text, has to be a world Chosen in Christ, and had to have a previous Union with Him or Else, there is no other Love of God besides that which He has that is in Christ Jesus Per Rom 8:38-39

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God has no Love for any who He does not consider in Christ Jesus. Now Does He consider all without exception in Christ Jesus ? What about the devil and his children, the children of the wicked one as per Matt 13:38

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Are they in that world that God so Loved in Christ Jesus ?

 

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