Author Topic: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !  (Read 7289 times)

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Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #208 on: January 07, 2022, 02:22:32 PM »
Surely the bible is more important than a quote. The bible has the overall authority and is showing the freewill given.
To consider the question that Jesus wept over Jerusalem because many were unwilling to respond to Him. Matthew 23:37
Although  the humble did respond to Him.

This doesn't take away the strength and effective power of God but shows the free will of man.

Didnt you read the scripture quotes in the article or you paid them no mine ?

Offline Primrose

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #209 on: January 07, 2022, 02:28:05 PM »
I just feel a bit like we are going around in circles, repeatingly ourselves and know each others views and unless I can say something new theres not much else I can say on this topic.Maybe on other topics

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #210 on: January 07, 2022, 04:01:51 PM »
Hi  brightfame52

   Rom 8:33  Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 
Rom 8:34  Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died?more than that, who was raised?who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 
Rom 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 
Rom 8:36  As it is written, ?For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.? 
Rom 8:37  No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 
Rom 8:38  For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 
     


as we can see if we read the whole section from which you have quoted the whole section is about Gods elect to which I agree but then the problem arises that we cannot prove that God has elected anyone after St Paul which would mean that no one after St Paul can be saved because we can not prove that God has chosen anyone.
your theory says that the majority of  the people that has ever lived can not be saved because the elect chosen by God are named in the bible which are all the OT saints and the Apostles the God I worship can do a lot better than that.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #211 on: January 08, 2022, 11:06:41 PM »
God's discriminating Love !


Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

That God does not Love all men, but in fact that He hates some, is seen here in this most hated by natural man portion of Truth, and if this verse was not enough for there is another that even moreso reveals God's hate for Esau and Love for Jacob Mal 1:2-3

2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.


Thats discriminant Love. This hate is not a sinful passion of hatred like Titus 3:3

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

And God's hate of an individual does not deny them creature comforts, His providential care as their Creator, thats clear from Jesus words here Matt 5:44-45

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:r for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth gain on the just and on the unjust.

God forbids His Children to ck human compassion for his fellow creature [though they may be a enemy to Truth] they are still from a creature perspective his neighbor. Jesus Illustrates this point here Lk 10:29-36

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

In Vs 33 that word compassion is the greek word splagchnizomai and means:


to be moved as to one's bowels, hence to be moved with compassion, have compassion (for the bowels were thought to be the seat of love and pity)

Let me give you an example of how this can practically play out. Those who are false gospel preachers and enemies in the gospel like those of Gal 1:8-9 or those false teachers who come bringing a false doctrine of Christ and believers are to show them no hospitality whatsoever as Per 2 Jn 2:1:10

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

Now in this situation no hospitality should even be allowed. Now, if this same person was seen by us perhaps in a burning car and could use our help in saving their life, then we should not lack the human compassion to attempt to save that persons life in any way feasible, just because they are an enemies of the Truth ! There should be a love or a compassion in us to aide that person even though from a spiritual stand point they are our enemy. We still should not ever invite them to hospitality in our homes as before in 2 Jn 2:1:10

A person does not have to be another believer in order for us to show human compassion for them which is another form of love !

Yes, I believe God Loves the non elect in that capacity as their Creator, not as their Heavenly Father, and God's Children should Love the non elect in that way but not as their brothers in Christ !

Even in natural things of doing good, preference should be made to those of the Household of Faith over the unbeliever Gal 6:10

As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.162

Even that imperative is discriminating !

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #212 on: January 09, 2022, 11:35:16 AM »
Hi Brightfame52
Thank you for your post I think that Esau would represent all the gentiles and when God says he hates then he has no regards for them as such his only interest at this time was to create man in his image which would be Israel

  Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt     

So Israel is Gods son and as such is the image of his Father this is who God loved his son the rest of the worlds population were not included in what God would do for Israel.
It was only after the death and resurrection of Christ was Gods gift thrown open the the gentiles and as such proves that God loves everyone.

Love and peace
Dave

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #213 on: January 09, 2022, 03:16:22 PM »
God's discriminating Love ! 2


Now Esau whom God stated that He hated did bless him with providential blessings and comforts, but these are no indications that He Loved him, but merely provided for him as He does all His creatures See Gen 36:6.

However the Love that God had for His Elect Jacob that He did not have for esau, a Love that esau and all non elect persons are excluded from, they being rejected of the Lord,is a hate of exclusion from Eternal Love in Christ Jesus. They are excluded from this Love Rom 8:39

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Remember Jesus prayer and He said this about His disciples and believers Jn 17:23-24

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Thats the Love of God in Christ Jesus, Loved before the foundation of the World even as Christ was Loved.

The non elect like the esau's are excluded from that Love, and so hated !

All outside of this exclusive Love of God, for in the original it reads with the definite article:

της αγαπης του θεου της εν χριστω ιησου τω κυριω ημων

Then we are viewed by God only as workers of Iniquity whom God hates Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Remember these Jesus said of Matt 25:1-2


Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

And are these not the same as here Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The foolish virgins and they that work iniquity are the same that God hates, and they are excluded from the Kingdom of His Love !

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #214 on: January 10, 2022, 11:46:42 AM »
For His Great love wherewith He loved us ?

Eph 2:4-5

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )


If God so Loved all men without exception as it is falsely believed today, that Great Love that it is, That word Great denotes: Strong , Intense, Large Love, then why did He not because of it by,Quicken them all without exception while they were dead in trespasses and sins, as stated here that He did or those He Loved Eph 2:4-5

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Notice that this quickening occurs, even when or while we ourselves are being dead in sin.

Now this is key, because this quickening takes place even while we are in a present state of rebellion and unbelief, its while being [present tense] dead in sin. Its similar to when or while we were being enemies, we were reconciled to God.

Quickening does not come as a result of ones faith, repentance, and contrition over sin, but it comes while we are in the grasp of spiritual death and "we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;"

Similar to the Apostle Paul at the time his quickening took place, it was while he was in a hateful rage against Christ and his followers See Acts 9:1ff

The only condition for this quickening on the sinners part is to be dead in sin, and on God's part, that He Loved them with a Great Love while they were dead in sin and rebellion !

So why aren't all men without exception quickened ? That word quicken literally means [I make alive together with.]

The reason why God did not do that to all mankind without exception is because He does not Love all mankind without exception !164

Offline Primrose

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #215 on: January 10, 2022, 12:43:11 PM »
Hi Brightfame,

I liked the bit where you wrote about God's love in provision for creation in a previous post. Hope I am not misquoting you in part..sorry if I am.

Some posts of others have written about freewill. Also the Sovereignty of God.
Surely this shows the sovereignty of God.

He who begun the good work will bring to completion on the day of the Lord.

That God is the gardener who transforms His children.


They maybe transforming but it's a gradual process and because they want to be the person who God intends for them to be and so He can be Sovereign.

Therefore God can quicken the actions and is the guidance and power behind them. As you have written about quickening.

How does that work in the leaders in government who have a respect for God but are not born again.
As we have had leaders who saw many people through crises. They gave reverence to God and yet it's unclear if they were born again or not.
How were they quickened?

 

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