Author Topic: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !  (Read 7607 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Primrose

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 983
Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #168 on: December 28, 2021, 12:04:16 PM »
@davetaff  @brightfame52

Yes that's interesting the way God works. The humble people respond to the gospel of Christ.

Brightfame I apologise too. Only I must say God isn't as severely harsh as that. He is slow to anger and patient .

There are things in the old testament in particular and they cannot be taken away but looked for an explanation for in the light of God.
God has more tender mercy, love and kindness than is realised.
If also the way the wrath due to Nineveh is considered and the way God had compassion on them when they repented. For God had mercy on people who didn't know their right hand from their left hand.
Were all of Nineveh the elect?
Probably not and God didn't demonstrate immutable hatred towards them.

God is unchanging.
God changes His course of action towards us accordingly, as shown by Nineveh.

God is only immutable towards people in knowing their beginning from the end, from the flesh down to the hidden parts of the heart.

[/quote]

Offline brightfame52

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #169 on: December 28, 2021, 02:46:53 PM »
Sovereign in His Love !


Rom 9:11-15

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

God is Sovereign in both His Love and Mercy, and Grace which all go hand in hand Eph 2:4-5

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Now just because we read in scripture that God is Love 1 Jn 4:8 and that He is merciful Ex 34:6;Deut 4:31, does not mean that He is not Sovereign with those qualities of His Nature, for He extends [apply] them unto whosoever He will, and of course witholds them to whomsoever he wills. A case in point are the Angels that left their first estate, God gave them No Mercy 2 Pet 2:4; Jude 1:6, nor not even a glimmer of hope of obtaining mercy, neither is there any proof that God Loved them his fallen creatures, since at no time we read that out of His Love for them, He gave His Son to die for them and their Apostasy !

So you see, God being a God of Love or a Merciful God was not benefit to them, none at all, and the same is true of some men !

Offline Primrose

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 983
Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #170 on: December 28, 2021, 05:13:23 PM »
God is Sovereign .

Does that however extend to determining people's social positions and behaviour and being Sovereign over that because that would surely not make people responsible for themselves, and not self governing in life and unless they are small children they yet are responsible for themselves. That's  because they give an account before God ( although thats different between the elect and non elect).
We do have the properties to be self governing as He made us, down to the cells in our body being self governing.
That God although Sovereign overall cannot be responsible for our responses with these considerations.

Therefore there would be no free will and we would be programmed and unspontaneous creatures.
Why otherwise would Jesus weep over Jerusalem towards those unwilling to be gathered like a chick?

Also in 1 Corinthians 1:27 God chose the weak of the world.
Chose because we love Him because He loved us first. We made the response like the good soil in the parable of the sower.
The parable that Davetaff gave us about the invited guests who turned the invitation down and so went to the poor and the needy and the humble etc, is powerful in showing the condition of the recipients responses being humble.
How would God be so Sovereign to that extent when this is showing the humble respond to God?
Does God make them humble and so they respond to Him. Maybe sometimes when He knows their heart.
What I'm saying that nobody would be responsible for themselves if God determined people to that extent.

Online davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 4015
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #171 on: December 29, 2021, 10:09:41 AM »
Hi
Thanks for some interesting post good food for thought I think there something else that needs to be put into the mix

       12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

 13  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

 15  Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;       


By this is St Paul saying that those who have never heard of the law but comply with the law will be saved dose this still apply to day there are lots of lovely people out there who are unbelievers who may well comply  with the law will the God of love condemn them to the lake of fire.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline brightfame52

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #172 on: December 29, 2021, 11:04:11 AM »
We know that Christ's coming into the World was not out of Love to all mankind without exception, neither to identify with the same, but for only His Brethren, and not according to the flesh Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

His Brethren in view here are all those who does the will of His Father in heaven Matt 12:50

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

And secondly, all those He became the Firstborn of Many Brethren to Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Heb 12:23

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Christ came only into this World and assumed the likeness of sinful flesh for those here Eph 1:4-5

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Yes, only the predestined ones, same as in Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

These are whom God's Love is limited to ! 153

Online davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 4015
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #173 on: December 29, 2021, 11:33:01 AM »
Hi Brightfame52
Thank you for your post and you are perfectly correct there is a group chosen from the foundation of the world who are the body of Christ they have been chosen by God they have not chosen God he has chosen them.

Then we have this

   24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 27  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise         


We who believe are all children of God through faith God cannot give us faith its something we must give to God.
So we who believe are children of God and as children we have a lot to learn and our teacher will be Christ and his bride in  his millennial reign.

Love and Peace
Dave


Offline Primrose

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 983
Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #174 on: December 29, 2021, 07:35:21 PM »
I think it has a twofold meaning.
In simple terms God loves the world as in the earth.

In more complicated terms God knows the beginning from the end with each person and who will make that response to Him and loves the elect in the world. For much is said about "for the sake of the elect".

God knows ultimately who will respond when their heart contradicts with the outer layers of the person, and God make that conversion happen. Ultimately it is a choice of the hearts potential that directs God to makes the conversion in Christ occur.

This is so complicated, I don't know how to make myself clearer.

Also Davetaff I was thinking of a question you asked and will answer when I can.

Offline brightfame52

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #175 on: December 30, 2021, 04:27:43 PM »
Most religious People think that God's Love is a mere emotion, however that cannot be further from the Truth. The Bible Teaches that God's Love and the Love of Jesus Christ produces effects, results. For God so loved the World that He Gave His only begotten Son. Yes Christ coming into the World to save His Own was an effect of God's Love !

Jn 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Gal 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And Christ's giving of Himself, produces Results for them as Well. And it is by theses results that God's Love produces, it is impossible to conclude that God's Love and that of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ is unto all mankind without exception !

Here is one of many effects of God's Love to those He loves 2 Thess 2:16-17

16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

Those God Loved, along with that Love He gives [ to the Loved ones] everlasting consolation and good hope through Grace. If we do not have these things abiding within, chances are, God does not Love us, because that is one of the evidences He gives those He Loves.

This hope comes as a result of the New Birth 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So it is appropriate to say that God Loves no man that does not receive a New Birth by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead !

This means, if Christ had not been raised from the dead, then none of those He died for would be born again, our New Birth is in virtue of His Resurrection !

 

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal