Author Topic: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !  (Read 7305 times)

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Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2021, 09:32:11 AM »
If God Loved all men without exception, Christ words in Jn 14:21,23 are meaningless which are:

Jn 14:21,23

21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Again, if God loved all men without exception, that means that even though men do not Love and obey Christ can be assured of the Fathers Love, as indicated in Jn 3:16​

Offline Primrose

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2021, 10:55:10 AM »
Yes there is a difference between the love God has for the world and those who received the love through Christ dwelling in them, that gives them eternal life.

Jesus describes His children to be the Light and Salt of the world . That's because He lives in them.

 Of course Jesus is the ultimate Light of the world 🌍.

Light has come into the world and the condemnation is that men prefer darkness to light because their deeds are evil. John 3:19

The  world 🌍 in context:

Earth

You are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted. It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

You are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Matthew 5


Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life. " John 8:12

 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2021, 01:18:09 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
Thank you for your reply you said

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    This thread is about Gods exclusive love to His Own !
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That God Loves those he has chosen his elect is a fact but he also loves the rest of us thats why Christ died for us he also said Love thy neighbour a neighbour can be good or evil and we are commanded to Love both so dose God comply with his own laws I think so God loves everyone the good and the bad.

Quote
     If God Loved all men without exception, Christ words in Jn 14:21,23 are meaningless which are:

Jn 14:21,23

21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Again, if God loved all men without exception, that means that even though men do not Love and obey Christ can be assured of the Fathers Love, as indicated in Jn 3:16​       

All these verses are saying is those who have chosen to love Christ will be loved by him and the Father this dose not mean God dose not Love the rest we have to choose to love God.

Getting back to the original question I thought these words of St Paul may be useful

    22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

 23  But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

 24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. note note

 25  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. note

 26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 27  For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

 28  Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

 29  But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 30  Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

 31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.       


So as we can see the story here of Abrahams two sons is an allegory and should be interpreted as such.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2021, 12:12:41 PM »
This scripture and others like it prove that God does not Love all without exception Heb 12:6-8

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Rev 3:19

19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Notice, Christ says as many as I love..meaning He does not Love all without exception or this statement would be meaningless

Those God Loves He chastens. Now does He chastens the whole world without exception ? No He does not.

There is a distinction between those God loves and chasten and the rest of the world He shall condemn 1 Cor 11:32

32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Now that portion of mankind that shall be condemned at the Judgment, were not Chastened by the Lord, and scripture says, as many as the Lord Loves they are chasten, and they will not be condemned with the world.

So this is more scripture testimony that God does not Love all men without exception.

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2021, 01:08:35 PM »
Hi Brightfame52

All the scriptures you have quoted only prove that God chastise us because he loves us.

    Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons   

       And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? ?My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.?
Hebrews 12:5-‬6 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/heb.12.5-6.ESV       


So God disciplines all those he loves but it dose not say he dose not love those who do not love him after all

    ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
John 3:16-‬17 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.3.16-17.ESV     


The gift of salvation is open to all humanity through Jesus Christ this is how God shows his love to a world of sinners.

Love and Peace
Dave




https://bible.com/bible/59/heb.12.5-6.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.3.16-17.ESV

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2021, 12:30:30 PM »
To teach that God Loved all men without exception by faulty understanding of Jn 3:16, is to overlook that God's Love is grounded in Christ and not apart from Him.

Rom 8:39

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Thats right, we must not understand Jn 3:16 apart from Rom 8:39

Now, with this in mind, If God Loved all men without exception in Christ Jesus, then all men without exception could claim to be recipients of this declaration from the mouth of Christ Jn 17:23-24

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

This is a declaration that all True Believers in Christ were Loved by the Father in the same manner as He loved the Son, and that being before the foundation of the world

Now, if those who recklessly teach that God Loves all men without exception, then they have all been loved to the same manner of extent as Christ has been loved even from before the foundation, and yet many of them so loved by God, will be cast into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels.

And many of them so loved will hear Him whom they were Loved in before the foundation say these words Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

or these words Matt 25:41

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

They will be called ye cursed even though they had supposedly been Loved by God in Him, before the world began.

All these conclusions are merited because men will not bow to scripture testimony that God only loved some of mankind and not all

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2021, 11:52:08 AM »
God does not Love all men without exception, because all whom He Loved are and will be more than conquerors, overcomer's through Christ.

Rom 8:37

Nay, in all these things we [Elect] are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

The word through is the prep dia which means:

through

a) the ground or reason by which something is or is not done

1) by reason of

2) on account of

3) because of for this reason

4) therefore

5) on this account


So, by reason of His Love for us [the elect] we are more than overcomer's..

So for God to have loved all without exception, then all without exception would be more than conquerors. Which certainly cannot be the case.

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2021, 02:38:40 PM »
Hi brightfame52
Thank you for you post but I think What you are missing is there are two groups those God has chosen from the foundation of the world the Last one we Know of is St Paul if there have been others after him but  have no written proof.

then we have the second group they are all those who have chose n to Love God this is what God wants our Love it is priceless to him there is no way God can Make us Love him it would not be love it would be programming we would be robots incapable of love God wants us to Love him and each other but it must be genuine Love nothing else will do if God had chosen all of us from the foundation of the world it would be God making us love him and that will not do it is us apart from the chosen elect who must choose to Love God and we are cleansed of our sins through the blood of Christ.
if you are right about the chosen and there is a chosen group if its only them who will be saved then it will be a relatively small group that will be saved but the God I believe in is greater than this.
the chose are those who are chosen to do the work of God here on earth and through them untold millions will be saved

Love and Peace
Dave

 

 

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