Author Topic: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !  (Read 7288 times)

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Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #144 on: December 20, 2021, 11:36:24 AM »
Jn 17:9,20

9 I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them whom Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also who shall believe in Me through their word,

Christ refused to pray for the world in general, but for those only who belonged to Him, Believers in Him and those who shall Believe in the Future. Those Christ refused to pray for are those of the reprobate world, those whom God Created as vessels of wrath, and children of hell ! Rom 9:22

22What if God, choosing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction;


Matt 23:15,33

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers! How can ye escape the damnation of hell?


Now it is insanity to suppose that Christ Loved these people and that He gave Himself for them as He Loved and gave Himself for the Church Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,

No real Christian should pray for none but those God has given to Christ, those who shall believe in Him, that is being Christ like.

It is blasphemy to even suggest that Christ came to redeem the children of the devil, whom shall perish in their sins, in God's Justice and Vengeance 2 Thess 1:8

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If Christ death was for these, if God Loved them Jn 3:16, then it was in vain !

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #145 on: December 20, 2021, 02:01:48 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
Thank you for your post but it dose not take into consideration thoseied outside the chosen ones the elect its interesting that those chosen were not righteous when chosen.
Christ died for the sins of the world that all the sins committed from the beginning can be forgiven if a person repents and asks for forgiveness

    The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, ?Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
John 1:29 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.1.29.ESV

   He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.2.2.ESV

     And Jesus said, ?Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.? And they cast lots to divide his garments.
Luke 23:34 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/luk.23.34.ESV     


As we see from the first 2 verses Christ died for the sins of the world not jest some of it and from the last verse we can plainly see that those who crucified him were forgiven and there's no indication that they were chosen from the foundation of the world.
Everyone can be forgiven if they repent of their sins thats why Christ died.

Love and peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.1.29.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.2.2.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/luk.23.34.ESV

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #146 on: December 21, 2021, 06:13:17 PM »
How can those who are hated by God, such as those in Ps 5:5, the workers of iniquity, be those of Jn 3:16 ? Those for sure are in a state of separation from God and His Love, if they are hated by Him. This could never be said of those, whom God Loved through Christ Jesus Rom 8:39, because nothing could separate them from the Love of God, which includes Death, which includes Spiritual Death, this word death is defined as:

the power of death Heb 2:14

figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin Eph 4:18

in the widest sense, death comprising all the miseries arising from sin, as well physical death as the loss of a life consecrated to God and blessed in him on earth, to be followed by wretchedness in hell

When God's Elect are in a state of Spiritual death, are they then separated from the Love of God, that is in Christ Jesus ? God forbid ! However the Workers of Iniquity are Ps 5:5, so these cannot be those who God Loved !

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #147 on: December 22, 2021, 12:52:55 PM »
Hi Brightfame52
Thank you for your reply but I think you quote from Heb should be read so

      Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Hebrews 2:14-‬18 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/heb.2.14-18.ESV   


The decendants of Abraham is Israel and then the Gentiles will be joined to Israel and all Israel will be saved and thats a lot more than the chosen.
Its through the chosen that the rank and file are saved the only difference is the rank and file must choose to be saved after hearing the gospel preached by the chosen.
There is no point in the chosen preaching the gospel to the chosen they already know it.

      ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.3.16.ESV     


So whoever believes in Jesus Christ shall be saved and have eternal life it says nothing about being chosen from the foundation of the world.

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/59/heb.2.14-18.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.3.16.ESV

Offline bot4

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #148 on: December 23, 2021, 12:27:35 AM »


Quote
How can those who are hated by God, such as those in Ps 5:5, the workers of iniquity, be those of Jn 3:16 ? Those for sure are in a state of separation from God and His Love, if they are hated by Him. This could never be said of those, whom God Loved through Christ Jesus Rom 8:39, because nothing could separate them from the Love of God, which includes Death, which includes Spiritual Death, this word death is defined as: the power of death Heb 2:14

How can  I  parallel this alongside re : Revelation 3:16


So, because you are lukewarm?neither hot nor cold?I am about to spit you out of my mouth.


Out of mouth =  eternity..

Whereas the beggar lazarus is found in eternity alongside abraham...


Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #149 on: December 23, 2021, 11:39:08 PM »

Jn 3:16

John 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Those God Loved in Jn 3:16, that world, had to be viewed by God as in Union with Christ Jesus, those Chosen in Him. For God's Love for any people is in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In the original " the Love of God " is thv agaphv tou qeou, as you can see it is preceded by the definite article, Identifying this as the exclusive Love of God, God has no other Love for men apart from His saving and Electing Purpose in Christ Jesus !

When writing about God's Purpose of Election in Rom 9, Paul writes in support of it by the comparing of the twins Jacob and Esau, to testify that it was Jacob that was God's Elect, he writes Rom 9:11-13

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

This makes it plain that God's Love is exclusively associated with His Purpose of Election, which Purpose is in Christ Jesus , which Love He Loved them because of being in Him by Election before the foundation Eph 1:4 and Jn 17:23-24

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

I challenge anyone to prove from scripture that the Love of God in Jn 3:16 is not the same exact Love of God in Rom 8:39. Now it would be above foolish to suppose that everyone in the world of Jn 3:16 was in Christ Jesus, but yet, would have to be if "so loved by God"

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #150 on: December 24, 2021, 10:52:20 AM »
Hi
Its all a question of Apostles and Decipels Apostles  are those who are chosen and sent the Decipels are those that follow.
We can see this in the feeding of the 5000 they were fed by Christ through his apostles this is a mirror image of what was to happen later after our Lords ascension that the Apostles would offer the food of the word of God to the world..
But it is up to each individual to choose to accept the word of God and to get baptised and become a child of God and enter into God's rest the millennium reign of Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline brightfame52

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Re: The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
« Reply #151 on: December 24, 2021, 12:22:46 PM »
The World God so Loved and Christ Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25, is that universal society of people He foreknew, and those who Love God Rom 8:28-30. For they are the only People who are His, and because of Christ's Death for them, they do and shall depart from iniquity 2 Tim 2:19

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

This they do [ depart from iniquity] because Christ by His Death did redeem them from it Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

Being redeemed from a vain manner of Life, is being redeemed from iniquity experimentally, this was accomplished by the Blood of Christ alone !

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Thats the world God Loved, the Redeemed world Rev 5:9


And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;147

 

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