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QuoteNo, I have explained that the knowledge of good and evil exists apart from the written code, and began with Adam eating from the tree. The moral law is written on the conscience also, and learnt from others, just as Paul says in Roms 1 & 2. You do seem to want to ignore absolutely everything I say. but I am speaking of the law given to Israel through Mose what other nations had for laws is of no interest for this discussion St Paul had this to say Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression So the other nations did not have Gods law only Israel and only Israel could brake the law
No, I have explained that the knowledge of good and evil exists apart from the written code, and began with Adam eating from the tree. The moral law is written on the conscience also, and learnt from others, just as Paul says in Roms 1 & 2. You do seem to want to ignore absolutely everything I say.
QuoteYou also seem to be reducing the bible to absurdity in taking things completely out of context and putting them in another context.Appearances are less important than what God says, and here he spoke directly to Noah. Who are you to quibble?No, the tense is present "Whoso sheddeth" not "Whoso will shed at some point long into the future..."I don't accept that what you say is God's word, because it doesn't conform to what is written. It might conform to your own theory, but that's "your own word."I may have taken them out of your contex but they work great in mine everything I say is based in scripture and on the creation account in Genesis and it works great for me.Whats your interpretation of Genesis
You also seem to be reducing the bible to absurdity in taking things completely out of context and putting them in another context.Appearances are less important than what God says, and here he spoke directly to Noah. Who are you to quibble?No, the tense is present "Whoso sheddeth" not "Whoso will shed at some point long into the future..."I don't accept that what you say is God's word, because it doesn't conform to what is written. It might conform to your own theory, but that's "your own word."
QuoteAnyway, I still look forward to you adducing just one other human being on the entire planet whom agrees with you. You must grasp that you are very unlikely to be correct if you alone can see things aright. God also has a remnant, even 7000, who don't bow the knee to Ba'al Rom 11:4; but 7000 is not 1 (i.e. you) I have jest bought a book by Peter Enns & Jared Byas where they say that the creation account in Genesis is the history of Israel in miniature I have not finished the book yet and they do not say everything I do but it is interesting that they view the creation account differently the books called Genesis for normal people
Anyway, I still look forward to you adducing just one other human being on the entire planet whom agrees with you. You must grasp that you are very unlikely to be correct if you alone can see things aright. God also has a remnant, even 7000, who don't bow the knee to Ba'al Rom 11:4; but 7000 is not 1 (i.e. you)
QuoteAlso I wonder if you see "7000" as literal here? Surely the number is symbolic?Christ said nothing about "returning as a man." The context is "my (i.e. Christ's) day." He was referring to himself, the man, the human being. His day. Not the future, as in "Christ ascending to where he was before."John 6:62. He said nother about coming back down again. He talked about returning to collect the harvest, but it be the angels who gather it Matthew 13:39 (not Christ himself in person). that numbers in scripture can be symbolic is not in dispute but it dose not mean that all numbers are symbolic And when the bible says and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years then you can bet your bottom dollar thats what will happen QuoteI think you are very mistaken if you think Christ is going to return as a human being.The context is that is comes down from the new heavens to the new earth.The "word of God" is mistranslated if you don't recognize idioms. I have asked you to account for what "1000 generations" means in the OT. Why does the number "1000" appear so frequently and in so many different contexts? Does it mean circa 15,000-20,000 years or does it mean a very large number of generations? You have yet to answer. Please stop evading the issue. when have I said Christ will return as a human being when Christ returns united with his bride he will be a spiritual being what he will look like I have absolutely no Idea As for the number question just because one number is symbolic dose not mean all numbers are symbolic each number must be looked at in its own context
Also I wonder if you see "7000" as literal here? Surely the number is symbolic?Christ said nothing about "returning as a man." The context is "my (i.e. Christ's) day." He was referring to himself, the man, the human being. His day. Not the future, as in "Christ ascending to where he was before."John 6:62. He said nother about coming back down again. He talked about returning to collect the harvest, but it be the angels who gather it Matthew 13:39 (not Christ himself in person).
I think you are very mistaken if you think Christ is going to return as a human being.The context is that is comes down from the new heavens to the new earth.The "word of God" is mistranslated if you don't recognize idioms. I have asked you to account for what "1000 generations" means in the OT. Why does the number "1000" appear so frequently and in so many different contexts? Does it mean circa 15,000-20,000 years or does it mean a very large number of generations? You have yet to answer. Please stop evading the issue.
Yes, but we were talking about Noah. Noah did not have the written code, but still God judged mankind according to sin, and Adam also. God was positing laws throughout the period of the OT.There has always been God's "law." Are you denying it? You seem to be. The Israelite laws were for a nation, which didn't exist until the people was created. Before then people had the moral law
An evolving system of law and morality, faith and sacrifice, down the lineage of Adam, ending in the Messiah. Essentially a history book but a true and accurate one (unlike Enns' view), although all the names have been Hebrewized or Grecized, so difficult to map onto archaeological findings
Hi eik Thank you for your reply you said If what you say is right why did Paul say For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.Romans 4:15 ESVhttps://bible.com/bible/59/rom.4.15.ESV
I don't think God destroyed everything in the flood be cause men sinned which they did but because angels came down and contaminated his creation so he had to begin again.
For me it has nothing to do with evolution its the story of Gods creation which began with Noah and ended with Christ what happened before the flood was destroyed except for everything on the ark.
As for Peter Enns I resent you making assumptions about me I am not heavily into him up to a few days ago I did not know who he was I just bought his book because the title interested me I have not even finished the book you keep asking me who else thinks like me so I said Mr Enns has similar views to me on some things.
I get the impression that you believe you are the only one who is right about everything and everyone else is wrong but the truth is the only one who is right is God and his word so lets stick to his word which says.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God So God will dwell here on earth with us or are you saying the bible is wrong.
Wrath came before the written code. Are you denying it? What about Adam and Noah? Don't grasp your point.
Only if you disbelieve what the bible says. Clearly he didn't begin again, because everything remained created. The system righted itself after the flood. The people continued to breed. The law remained in place, perhaps enhanced by the recognition that now all homo sapiens were to be regarded as in God's image, whereas before it was only Adam's lineage.
perhaps enhanced by the recognition that now all homo sapiens wbut ere to be regarded as in God's image, whereas before it was only Adam's
Only because your bible teachers tell you to believe that Adam and Eve are essentially mythical. Can't accept it, neither did Christ or the apostles. Adam and Eve are fundamental to apostolic theology.
It seems that you share a largely sceptical approach to the Old Testament, deeming it not particularly relevant, especially whatever pertains to what came before the written code of Israel.
On the contrary, there are thousands of people who agree with me, which is the school of biblical literalism. There are millions of people whom will regards Enns as a heretic, that is, if they had heard of him. I have never heard of him before now. His brand of secular religion or sceptical Christianity is not one I am attracted to, but has been promulgated since the year "dot." See the espistle of Jude.
For at least the third time, correlating this with Rev 21:1,2 shows that this is referring to the New Heavens and New Earth with the New Jerusalem.
Hi eikThank you for your reply you saidthe only law Adam broke was eating from the tree of Knowledge and the penalty for that was death which happened and Adam was no more but from Noah to Moses there was no Tree and there was no Law
I have stated many times the only thing not on the ark was Man in the image of God and this was the only thing God needed to Create Where in scripture dose it say this
I don't have a teacher except the bible itself and I have never denied the existence of Adam and Eve and that were created in the Image of God what I have Said is that they were not one man and one woman but were created in the same way as Christ and His Church.
How on earth can you accuse me of something like that I believe the OT is vital for our understanding of Scripture of who God is and what he has done and what he is doing and what he will do in the future.
If its just a question of the number of People that believe there are much larger groups than yours all believing different things that's why I say throw out everything that men say and get back to what God says.
And for the the third time I say the new Heaven and earth and the new Jerusalem will be here on this Planet.
Of course there was law, but just not the written code. What about when God wiped out so many in the flood?
You're adopting a wantonly contentious attitude to the meaning of law, which has a far greater scope in the bible that just the written code, as in every legal system. Thus the "law of love" certainly existed long before Moses. Also natural law. Also common law
The laws against murder and adultery were established long before Moses ever arrived on the scene, and throughout the ancient world
It's unsupportable from scripture. I only just quoted you the passage: Genesis 9:5,6 "Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. ... "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man
Can I suggest to you that you might want to find some plausible teachers whom aren't notorious liberal theologians, for it wasn't even given to Christ to work out everything himself (he sought the company of the teachers of the law at the temple). Try discovering a theologian's reputation before you read his works, because so many aren't worth the effort
2 Peter 3:10 "But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare
Hi eik Thank you for your reply you saidThere may have been mens laws but there weren't any laws given by God except not to eat from the tree of knowledge with the flood God wiped the slate clean and began again that there was evil in the world before the flood is not in question.But from Noah to moses there was no law from God as attested to by St Paul.
The words law of love dose not appear in scripture although I use that expression to explain what our Lord said.
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these But these two laws dose not negate the law give to Moses it just gives us the best way to fulfil them.
You will need to prove this statement from scripture the law given to Moses was given to Israel who is man in the image of God no one else and it is also applied to Chist and there is much more to the law as we can see from these verses.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. View moreMat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me It seams to me the law is a type of prophecy that has to be fulfilled I have answered this this is speaking about man in Gods image which are Israel and Christ Israel killed Christ And Israel was killed by Rome.
We know that Christ is the last Adam so who is his Eve is it one woman or is his Eve his bride the church consisting of thousands of individuals if its the church then it stands to reason that one human man can not be in the image of God.
I think Christ sought the teachers to teach them he did not need anyone to teach him I have the best teacher there is the word of God
Can't see the relevance of this verse in dose not mean the earth will disappear jest means that everything will be open to our Lord.
Before I answer you will have to prove from scripture that "Israel is man in the image of God no one else
Fire does usually destroy. May be you just can't accept what you find in the bible. It's quite common today