Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 4322 times)

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Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2021, 05:19:03 AM »

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Hi eik
Thank you for your post you said

So are you saying God is telling the lies when he said he would destroy the nations before them.
I am saying that such a statement is consistent with giving the Israelites victory in battle, which is exactly what he did give to them.

You do not appear to grasp the numerous injunctions given to the Israelites to drive out the Canaanites. Compare Jos 3:10 and Jos 17:18 and Jdg 1:29. What God meant was victory in their endeavours.

You appear not to be able to grasp the schema of the Old Testament, and the way in which God works, imputing individual verses with extraordinary meanings, and disregarding many others that give context.

So are you saying we should go out killing people who don't believe as we do yes we should but we should use the two edged sword which is the word of God or are you saying we should use a sub machine gun.
I never said anything of the kind. However, should a Christian political power arise it would be incumbent upon it to relegislate to make certain behaviours criminal that used to be in the past, but now are not.

And one of those just might be the criminal preclusion of various destructive heresies and cults that spring up like weeds in the modern era.

I never said it was what I said was I believed it to be so
You said "I believe the KJV was inspired by God and as such can be relied on for the truth."

I believe the KJV was the work of Christians, but I don't see them as infallible. No-one is infallible except perhaps a prophet of God.

All killing is against the laws of love given by our Lord you can't love someone then go and blow his head of.
All killing is wrong
Tosh. Did Jesus ever condemn anyone for putting to death the thieves crucified alongside him? Did he not commend the one who said, Luke 23:41 "We are punished justly, because we're getting back what we deserve for the things we did, but this man has done nothing wrong."

Do you not grasp that the Levitical law prescribed the death sentence for numerous crimes? Are you condemning those who would implement it? If so, you make yourself out to be God.

You have revealed yourself to be a gnostic one whom despises the OT God, and makes him out to be evil. Marcionism, similar to Gnosticism, depicted the God of the Old Testament as a tyrant or demiurge.

Where you try to pretend that God never even said the things he said. Yes he did command that criminal offences be punished with the death sentence. And that would include all false prophets.

Deu 18:20 "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death."

Deu 18:22 "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed."

Do you realize howmany false prophecies the JWs have intoned?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions

Do you not realize that by the law of the OT, the JWs should be criminally proscribed for lying?


So what are the laws

        And he said to him, ?You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.  This is the great and first commandment.  And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.  On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.?
Matthew 22:37-‬40 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.22.37-40.ESV
That is the law for believers. Yet there is also law against malefactors. Again you can't build a theology on a perversion of a just a tiny number of verses.

   But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.  For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?  And if you greet only your brothers,  what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?  You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 5:44-‬48 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.5.44-48.ESV   [/color]
And so why didn't Jesus condemn the judicial authorities for prosecuting criminals?


So are you saying we should ignore these words from our lord that we should kill our enemies and not love them as commanded.
You, I assume, are not a juducial or a political authority. Therefore you have no participation in the adminsitration of justice. But that doesn't give you the right to condemn anyone who does participate in the adminsitration of justice, which is what you are making the bible out as saying (wrongly).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.22.37-40.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.5.44-48.ESV

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Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2021, 05:41:19 AM »
Sorry for making it difficult for you, normally my Grandson is on here [playing roblox] this wil be the first free evening ..

Usually I am bouncing between different things [like a tennis ball] and have a few minutes to speed read and type AFAP..   ;)

Not disagreeing with anyone ...


I am simply getting at the differences between the powers regarding "kiiling- Destroy"  [words are great things - but relay so little]

Hence the use of pictures/metaphors/symbols/ in God's Word..

When used in regard to  God [He is the good Shepherd ] - Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able
to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Regarding satan and demons [they are already judged as per  - Then He [God] will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41).


Regarding human activity [all depends on who and what they are intertwined to or if they are]

One person might be their own god/ another revolving around God / another being twined in with demonic stuff.

As Paul said Romans 7:15-20 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And
if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin
 living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to
do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do?this I
keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


So refering to the words "kill/destroy" you know people can destroy using words or build up using words..
I grasp what you're saying. Yet sometimes it is necessary to destroy false religions and heresies using words. And that is incumbent on all believers. And may be participate in the administration of justice, e.g. by sitting on juries. There is a time for everything under the sun Ecc 3.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones - but words will never hurt me"  silly saying..

Woo - finally got to post with  some free time whoop..   cheer:



Depends when he was bound in History = His - Story - how can you know satan is not allowed [NOW] and sometime in the future [BOUND] - you do not.. know..
As I see it (just my point of view), the unbinding of Satan is commensurate with the unbinding of his power, which is commensurate with the nature of the criminal justice system, the government etc i.e. the powers that rule over us, and what it does and doesn't allow. What the government allows in this day and age is unrestrained witchcraft and satan worship (cf. Aleister Crowley).

So the unbinding of Satan would first be seen in the criminal justice system, the government etc being given over increasingly to pagan doctrines, which is what we have seen for the last 100 years since the political enfranchisement of women in the early 1900s. Yet long before that in the middle of the 19th century we saw the political establishment abolish punitive laws restraining adultery. It's my belief that the unbinding of satan has been going on for at least 150 years in the UK, which accounts now for the great loss of Christianity in a sizeable proportion of the population.

I find that a very dangerous and reaction to the word "Leaders"! [I never mentioned Christian..]
I meant government

Why would -  Boris Johnson be a woshipper of satan ?
Him? The perennial philanderer who wanted to make Turkey a part of the EU? What does he know of Christianity? He's a "cultural christian" whatever that may be.

What a strange response ?

You are relating "leaders" to "Christian"  ...why ? .. I never mentioned Christian - I said "Spiritual]
I'm a bit lost. I'm not critiquing bona fide Christians. They are however in a sizeable minority.

Relating people worshipping  satan ?   how can they [as he is now bound up in an abyss]

Why would they want to be bound with him into eternal torment / sorry but does'nt make sense.
Deception.

2Th 2:9-11 "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie..."

Worshippers of satan are "deluded."

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2021, 02:04:52 PM »
I am saying that such a statement is consistent with giving the Israelites victory in battle, which is exactly what he did give to them.

        What you are saying is its ok to change the word of God to suit your theology         

You do not appear to grasp the numerous injunctions given to the Israelites to drive out the Canaanites. Compare Jos 3:10 and Jos 17:18 and Jdg 1:29. What God meant was victory in their endeavours.

     No I am not I am only speaking of their first entry and God makes it plain that he would go before them and clear the land before them       

You appear not to be able to grasp the schema of the Old Testament, and the way in which God works, imputing individual verses with extraordinary meanings, and disregarding many others that give context.
I never said anything of the kind. However, should a Christian political power arise it would be incumbent upon it to relegislate to make certain behaviours criminal that used to be in the past, but now are not.

And one of those just might be the criminal preclusion of various destructive heresies and cults that spring up like weeds in the modern era.
You said "I believe the KJV was inspired by God and as such can be relied on for the truth."

I believe the KJV was the work of Christians, but I don't see them as infallible. No-one is infallible except perhaps a prophet of God.
Tosh. Did Jesus ever condemn anyone for putting to death the thieves crucified alongside him? Did he not commend the one who said, Luke 23:41 "We are punished justly, because we're getting back what we deserve for the things we did, but this man has done nothing wrong."

       I view the KJV as the word of God I don't think God would allow a mere man to interfere with it if man could interfere with it it would mean God is not Almighty.
Yes there was penalties for breaking the law I am not saying anything different I was put to death when I was baptised so was the Israelites looking at the law from the wrong perspective   


Do you not grasp that the Levitical law prescribed the death sentence for numerous crimes? Are you condemning those who would implement it? If so, you make yourself out to be God.

  like I said was Israel looking at the law from the wrong perspective           

You have revealed yourself to be a gnostic one whom despises the OT God, and makes him out to be evil. Marcionism, similar to Gnosticism, depicted the God of the Old Testament as a tyrant or demiurge.

          I protest the God I worship is the God of LOVE and all things will be achieved through love love is the greatest power in th universe and God is LOVE       

Where you try to pretend that God never even said the things he said. Yes he did command that criminal offences be punished with the death sentence. And that would include all false prophets.

Deu 18:20 "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death."

Deu 18:22 "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed."

Do you realize howmany false prophecies the JWs have intoned?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions

Do you not realize that by the law of the OT, the JWs should be criminally proscribed for lying?

That is the law for believers. Yet there is also law against malefactors. Again you can't build a theology on a perversion of a just a tiny number of verses.
And so why didn't Jesus condemn the judicial authorities for prosecuting criminals?

You, I assume, are not a juducial or a political authority. Therefore you have no participation in the adminsitration of justice. But that doesn't give you the right to condemn anyone who does participate in the adminsitration of justice, which is what you are making the bible out as saying (wrongly).

  yes the law proscribed the death penalty but what death is the question is it horrific physical death or a spiritual death through baptism to eternal life.
I condemn no one not my place we have a righteous judge lets leave it to him   
I noticed you did not copy the following so I take it you did not have an answer

         
   But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.  For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?  And if you greet only your brothers,  what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?  You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 5:44-‬48 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.5.44-48.ESV           
                       

It seam you don't like the word love the only way to overcome evil is with Love.

Love and Peace
Dave

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.5.44-48.ESV

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2021, 02:39:41 PM »

Quote
I am saying that such a statement is consistent with giving the Israelites victory in battle, which is exactly what he did give to them.
What you are saying is its ok to change the word of God to suit your theology         
Not. Please address the three verses. I gave you, which discloses that God only does things when people help themselves.


Micah 6:4 "For I brought you up from the land of Egypt"

Does this mean that the Israelites didn't have to physically walk away from Egypt?

You're putting an interpretation on a promise of God that is indefensible.

For the implication of what you're saying is no-one has to do anything to contribute to their salvation. This is hyper-calvinism and universalism all rolled into one.

       I view the KJV as the word of God I don't think God would allow a mere man to interfere with it if man could interfere with it it would mean God is not Almighty.
Idolatry of a bible translation is perverse. There is no decree from God that the KJV is the "word of God."

Yes there was penalties for breaking the law I am not saying anything different I was put to death when I was baptised so was the Israelites looking at the law from the wrong perspective   

like I said was Israel looking at the law from the wrong perspective           
The wrong perspective?

The "right perspective" surely lies in Numbers 25:1-15. Phinehas had the right perspective. Yet you condemn him. God didn't.

Again Jael in Judges 4 who killed Sisera. Whom are you to condemn?

You have revealed yourself to be a gnostic one whom despises the OT God, and makes him out to be evil. Marcionism, similar to Gnosticism, depicted the God of the Old Testament as a tyrant or demiurge.

          I protest the God I worship is the God of LOVE and all things will be achieved through love love is the greatest power in th universe and God is LOVE       
That's talking at cross purposes. We know that believers are called to show love. That's not disputed. What you're disputing in their duty to administer the law, and you're also disputing the commands God gave to the Israelites in the Old Testament.

Quote
Where you try to pretend that God never even said the things he said. Yes he did command that criminal offences be punished with the death sentence. And that would include all false prophets.

Deu 18:20 "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death."

Deu 18:22 "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed."

Do you realize howmany false prophecies the JWs have intoned?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions

Do you not realize that by the law of the OT, the JWs should be criminally proscribed for lying?

That is the law for believers. Yet there is also law against malefactors. Again you can't build a theology on a perversion of a just a tiny number of verses.
And so why didn't Jesus condemn the judicial authorities for prosecuting criminals?

You, I assume, are not a juducial or a political authority. Therefore you have no participation in the adminsitration of justice. But that doesn't give you the right to condemn anyone who does participate in the adminsitration of justice, which is what you are making the bible out as saying (wrongly).

  yes the law proscribed the death penalty but what death is the question is it horrific physical death or a spiritual death through baptism to eternal life.
I condemn no one not my place we have a righteous judge lets leave it to him   
I noticed you did not copy the following so I take it you did not have an answer
Baptism cannot be imposed on malefactors. The apostles make it clear the criminal law continues to apply to all men even in a nominally Christian society. Such is not against the law of God. For authorities are God's servants &etc.

     
   But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.  For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?  And if you greet only your brothers,  what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?  You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 5:44-‬48 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.5.44-48.ESV                                   
It seam you don't like the word love the only way to overcome evil is with Love.
I've already made it clear this applies only to societal relations, not internice strife or war, and it also applies only within strict limits as to the nature of the wrongs sustained. As a method of avoiding warfare, it is truly perverse. You, I guess, are one who would in WWII, have allowed the Nazis to invade and carry off all the Jews to the gas chambers without lifting your little finger to help them? You would because that is what JWs say should happen. They are essentially anti-social vis-a-vis other Christians. No-one else matters but them and those who belong to their sect.

For their doctrines cannot be accepted by the vast majority. Your view of the Old Testament is gnostic not mainstream. And so many other JW views are beyond orthodox Christianity (with a small 'o').

It's not surprising that JW is condemned as a cult. It is truly what I believe. If JWs are so right, why did they only arise as a sect in the 19th century? Why did we have to wait 1800 years for the society of Jehova? As if YHWH somehow excluded Christ himself?

There was an old English murder case I was reading about in the 1960s. A guy Harold Jones was not executed for murdering two women. He served time in jail and was let out after 20 years. It is now thought he went to on murder another six women (Hammersmith murders). Assuming he was the murderer, who gained by not putting him to death? Also many examples in USA of this.

Really this obsession against killing is "farcical." "There is a time for everything under the son." Ecc 3:3 "  a time to kill and a time to heal." Check it out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.5.44-48.ESV

Earthman

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2021, 12:44:00 AM »
No idea why I am responding...

re:
Quote
I meant government


 (Isaiah 9:6) N0 the goverment upon our lives is not about who we vote for - the governing power upon us is about [who we allow into our lives]

Jesus Chist should be the governing force - therefore you can then allow that scripture into you life

Mnay people on social media no longer know "what is good or bad] as in  Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

They live a false life and conspiracy abounds, remember you are of an upside Kingdom - that won't work for you will it ?

The scripture only applies to you once you have lived it.. you do not own scripture..





 Depends who you make to head of your life 1 Corinthians 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"


The real God  does not need you - you need God..


For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.






Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2021, 09:55:13 AM »
No idea why I am responding...
I do find your points difficult to grasp at times, I'll admit. It's good practice to try to articulate yourself in a way in which you can be understood. I don't try to be rude: I can't understand what you're getting at so much of the time, as your words don't seem to relate to the coversation. Also a poor use of quotes is an added issue.

Thus the use of the word "kill." We can't just spiritualize the OT away. That's what the gnostics do. For believers, certainly it has impetus that we put to death our earthly natures, but it still retains the same meaning as it always has done.

(Isaiah 9:6) N0 the goverment upon our lives is not about who we vote for - the governing power upon us is about [who we allow into our lives]

Jesus Chist should be the governing force - therefore you can then allow that scripture into you life

Mnay people on social media no longer know "what is good or bad] as in  Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

They live a false life and conspiracy abounds, remember you are of an upside Kingdom - that won't work for you will it ?
Don't know what you mean. You speak in riddles.

The scripture only applies to you once you have lived it.. you do not own scripture..
Nor does anyone else.

I once partnered  with a third partner who just used me - to do as little as possible [to use me to as much as possible - for his advantage - for as many years as possible]

Although I forgave him - I never forgot - and since that time I have forgiven but have never forgotten what he did to me.

If I had then I would allow others to do the same .. in the future.



 Depends who you make to head of your life 1 Corinthians 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"


The real God  does not need you - you need God..
Are you talking to me personally or in some hypothetical capacity as a human being? God's will is that all are saved, and so in that sense God "needs" everyone to fulfil his desire here on earth. Obviously in heaven there are other factors, but on earth God needs everyone to be willing to put their hand to the plough. So I don't really agree that you are entitled to say to anyone "God doesn't need you." In fact he does, for he requires all to fulfil his commands to repent Acts 17;30.

What God's will in heaven is, is quite beyond the remit of mankind to know unless the subject of revelation.

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

True, and it is what I have been arguing for a long time now on this board: that the government is upon the shoulders of Christ. Hence I say we are already in the 1000 years of Satan being bound, may be even past it. Christ isn't going to come back to earth, to some new Jerusalem relocated to this old earth in order to govern it, for he is already governing it and has been since his ascension.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2021, 12:43:46 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply we still seam to be going round in circles over the word kill or murder if you kill someone you murder them if if you murder someone you kill them to kill someone by accident is not murder.
If a soldier is ordered to go and kill is it murder on his part because he has the opportunity to refuse so he goes out to purposely to kill another human being.   
   
You mention Hitler in you last post but if all the German people at the time had been bible loving Christians following the commands of our Lord Jesus Christ he would not have found enough people to raise an army.

So should we consider  the law of Moses from a different angle what did our Lord have to say about it who was it meant for in the first instance Israel the first Adam and then Christ the last Adam it was given to the man in Gods image and our Lord said.

       Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil   

     Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled 

     Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me         


So as we see the law is a prophecy that must be obeyed by the man in the image of God Israel failed in that respect by breaking the law.
But our Lord complied with every letter of the law and all those who are his body should follow his example.
Our Lord went like a lamb to the slaughter to comply with the law but could have resisted with 12 legions of angels but did not so as to comply with the law thou shalt not kill which makes perfect sense in this context.

Might be worth doing a study on the law as a prophecy I was thinking of this obscure law used by St Paul.

     Deu 25:4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn. note View more

1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward     


So if Paul uses this obscure law to apply to those preaching the gospel what do all the other laws mean.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2021, 02:24:33 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply we still seam to be going round in circles over the word kill or murder if you kill someone you murder them if if you murder someone you kill them to kill someone by accident is not murder.
If a soldier is ordered to go and kill is it murder on his part because he has the opportunity to refuse so he goes out to purposely to kill another human being.   
Clearly this isn't true. You are not grasping the bible because you're not looking at the original language words.

The reason why we have different English words is because they convey different meanings. The same is true in Hebrew. All you're doing by this exercise is to confound the meanings.

Thus taxation is not theft. Although some people say that it is, and it may be where it is arbitrary and the proceeds of tax are simply used by rulers to aggrandize themselves, most would say that it is not in the same category as theft, because it is subject to law, and for the most part laws that have been made by legislatures voted in by the people for the benefit of the people. It was the cause the of American revolution that the tax laws were not made by Americans.

The same principle applies to murder. If someone drops bombs on my city, or whatever I am entitled to take up arms in self-defence according to the laws of warfare and inter-state relations. It is not to be equated to the concept of killing someone over a personal dispute, where law is the provided option.

As someone who has studied international law, and tax law, I can confidently say that there is a clear difference in meaning between kill and murder, and between taxation and theft. Yet at the edges, in the realms where the legal becomes illegal, there may be some uncertainty.

In the blanket terms in which you have annihilated the distinctions in meanings, I don't agree.

It's not even a religious issue. It's a linguistic issue that you're not seeing because your personal belief, of pacifism or whatever it is, disallows you to see the distinction in meaning. Please don't project your own hang-ups onto language which has a broader outlook. Even the bible has that broader outlook. It uses different words. It doesn't condemn all soldiers as murderers or all taxation as theft.

Fact is, the only reason you're able to read the bible is because Christian fought against and killed muslims in their thousands and millions in former centuries. Otherwise, like the early church in the Levant, we'd all be overrun by Islam by now and dutiful muslims reading the Koran.


You mention Hitler in you last post but if all the German people at the time had been bible loving Christians following the commands of our Lord Jesus Christ he would not have found enough people to raise an army.
That's not the issue when the Luftwaffe are reigning bombs down on your city. Are you going to destroy the enemy planes, or not?


So should we consider  the law of Moses from a different angle what did our Lord have to say about it who was it meant for in the first instance Israel the first Adam and then Christ the last Adam it was given to the man in Gods image and our Lord said.
What? It was given to the Israelites who were just about to take possession of the promised land by conquest because the people in it were notorious sinners who would corrupt the Israelite morality and would attack and kill them whenever they got the opportunity cf. the Amalekites.

The Canaanites chose to engage Israel in battle for the most part. They were the avowed enemies of Israel. You can't live next door to an enemy.


       Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil   

     Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled 

     Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me         


So as we see the law is a prophecy that must be obeyed by the man in the image of God Israel failed in that respect by breaking the law.
It failed to drive out the Canaanites just as Saul sinned by not destroying the Amalekites.


But our Lord complied with every letter of the law and all those who are his body should follow his example.
Our Lord went like a lamb to the slaughter to comply with the law but could have resisted with 12 legions of angels but did not so as to comply with the law thou shalt not kill which makes perfect sense in this context.
"Thou shalt not kill" is not the reason he did not resist. The reason was that scripture had to be fulfilled in him. As Christ himself inferred, he was entitled to kill them (under the law) by the hand of avenging angels.


Might be worth doing a study on the law as a prophecy I was thinking of this obscure law used by St Paul.

     Deu 25:4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn. note View more

1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward     


So if Paul uses this obscure law to apply to those preaching the gospel what do all the other laws mean.
They mean what they say. There was a direct application of that law to the labouring evangelists of his day.

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