Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 13305 times)

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Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #224 on: June 09, 2021, 09:30:46 PM »

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

God chose Jakob who became Israel and God took this one man and from him created the nation of Israel which is man in Gods image.
The covenant of God was with Noah, not Israel, in respect of the decree that "man is made in the image of God" (Gen 9:1-17). This decree was made after the flood. So it is clear that man in the image of God predated Israel by a very long margin.

After making a further covenant with Abraham, God chose the descendants of Israel to be saved under a new covenant. The idea of Israel as a nation is primarily a human legal conception that was incidental to the project.  What God means by Israel is primarily the descendants of Israel adopted purusant to the covenant God made with Abraham.

So the nation idea is subservient to the  people of the covenant. The idea of God creating a "nation in the image of God" has no plausible basis in the bible. Rather Israel is the people of the covenant, by which is meant people who submit to the covenant. The Old Testament idea of man in the image of God is far wider than the Old Testament covenental relation, for it relates back to Noah's covenant, and then back  to Adam himself.

So you don't believe what God said in Genesis that we need the knowledge of good and evil to be like God.
God never said any such thing.  God made Adam, who was innocent of evil, in the image of God. When Adam fell in an attempt to become more like God, it was necessary to save him from his sins by providing a way back to the image of God, the state of innocency. In order to do this it was necessary for Adam to put on the nature or image of Christ, which involved men's sins being forgiven. Christians are required to be innocent of evil.

Hab 1:13 "You are of purer eyes than to behold evil, And cannot look on wickedness."

    22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever     

It also begs the question why was satan allowed into the world if God can bind him for a 1000 years then cast him into the lake of fire why
did he not do it in the beginning God must have had a good reason.
Because of the victory of Christ over the powers of darkness:

Col 2:15 "Having disarmed principalities and powers (by nailing the written legal code to the cross), He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

Rev 12:8 "But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven."

I have not forgot anything God created Adam and Adam chose to disobey God and chose evil over good and its the same choice we all have to make and the choice we need to make is to follow the laws of love as given to us by our Lord Jesus Christ if we love as our Lord has commanded we comply with all of Gods laws.

This is why satan and evil is in the world so that we can choose to love love comes at terrible price and its the only thing God cannot do is make us love we must choose to do it ourselves from the heart.
It's difficult to reconcile this will all your other teaching respecting the millennium etc.

Don't understand the question
You said
Quote
Israel was created in Gods image Moses was the head of the nation
Represents God Aaron is the high priest represents Christ and (a) the tribe of Levi represents the church (b) the woman and the other 11 tribes are the children represents all those who are saved through Christ
This is what man in Gods image looks like.
Although I accept that the High Priest is a type of Christ, and the Levites are a type for the church, I do not grasp whatever else you are saying. I was asking how (a) and (b) are to be differentiated.

Christ and Israel are both sons of God and as such they are both in the image of God as was the first Adam.
I don't accept that there is any equivalence, except a superificial usage of similar terminology. The nature of Christ, the begotten son, was as the express facsimile of God, which was on a wholly different level to the mere likeness or resemblance of Adam to God found in the Old Testament.

This differentiation is attested in 1Co 15:45 "And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being."[fn] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."

You'll have to ask God that one for myself I believe it was because we have to choose between good and evil.
The only plausible answer is that the millennium as you envisage it is a fantasy. For if it was a reality, it would certainly have been instated at the beginning, or at least immediately after Christ had triumphed over the powers of darkness.

Fundamentally, the only difference between what the Pharisees believed, and what you believe in respect of the millennium, is that what the Pharisees believed was pre-resurrection and under the Old Covenant, whilst you say is is post-resurrection and under the new covenant.

Don't you think that your ideas on the millennium are far too close to the errors of the Pharisees for comfort?

We know that our Lord did not go into paradise on that day he went into the grave for three days then he was resurrected and was here on earth until he was taken up to heaven.
Jesus teaches that there is paradise even in the grave. Luk 16:22, Revelation 6:9, Phl 1:23.

I think you see the grave too much after the pagan conception.

As for the thief he died on that day and he will be raised up on the last day which is Christ millennium and for the thief it will be today.
Just a manipulation of scripture to suit yourself. No 1 rule: never manipulate scripture to accomodate your own doctrines. Change your doctrine instead to accomodate scripture. Just because the thief wasn't resurrected on the day of death doesn't mean his soul didn't go to paradise.

   and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years   

Yes thats what the bible says that Christ and his bride will reign here on earth for 1000 years.
You added "here on earth" yourself. That's adding to Revelation which is forbidden.

You do not need to believe anything I say but you do have to believe Gods word which don't seam to want to do you prefer the words of men.
I only quote scripture here. What is your beef that you accuse me of quoting the words of men?

I have never ever said that Jesus was not Gods begotten son and I object to you saying I did yes Jesus Christ is Gods only begotten son as stated plainly in scripture
You seemed to me to nullify the distinction between Christ and Israel, and between being begotten and being adopted, for you said: "Begotten or adopted makes no difference they are both Gods sons and as such  would be the image of our heavenly Father "

In one sense are you right: both had to learn obedience on earth, and are / to be made into perfect sons by suffering,

Heb 2:10 "For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings."

But in the sense in which you were constrasting Jesus and Israel, you were wrong: Phl 2:9 "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:"

This isn't true of Israel or the church. Jesus remains the facsimile of God's being, which no mere man can lay claim to, without a charge of blasphemy being laid. To my mind, you insufficient fail to appreciate that Christ is exalted above every other man, just because he was God's begotten son.



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Online davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #225 on: June 10, 2021, 01:32:24 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply
As I understand the covenant with Noah it is a covenant for all mankind as for

   6  Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man     

This is referring to Israel killing Christ then Israel was killed by the romans

So are you saying God never said this.

          22  And the LORD God said, Behold, tree of knowledge the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever   

Seams pretty clear to me when Adam eat from the tree of knowledge he became like God as stated above when he ate from the tree he disobeyed God and chose evil instead of good.
The the question is why did God place the tree of knowledge in the garden.

   5  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

 47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven     

 
The first Adam in Gods image is Israel the last Adam is Jesus Christ the Adam before the flood was destroyed in the flood.
Israel is man in Gods image in the flesh and must come first.

Quote
   Because of the victory of Christ over the powers of darkness       

But if God had not allowed satan into the world there would not be any powers of darkness to overcome so why did God give satan permission to enter the world.

Quote
   Although I accept that the High Priest is a type of Christ, and the Levites are a type for the church, I do not grasp whatever else you are saying. I was asking how (a) and (b) are to be differentiated       

Simple enough Israel was created in the image of God and as such is a mirror image of what Jesus Christ at his second advent

   For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
1 Corinthians 13:12 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.13.12.ESV     


Quote
    This differentiation is attested in 1Co 15:45 "And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being."[fn] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit     

The first Adam after the flood is Israel the man of flesh the last Adam is Jesus Christ the spiritual man.

Quote
  The only plausible answer is that the millennium as you envisage it is a fantasy. For if it was a reality, it would certainly have been instated at the beginning, or at least immediately after Christ had triumphed over the powers of darkness           

If it was in the beginning it would have no purpose everything in the beginning was perfect until Adam sinned not only that but there would be no satan to give us the knowledge of good and evil so we could be like God.

Quote
      We know that our Lord did not go into paradise on that day he went into the grave for three days then he was resurrected and was here on earth until he was taken up to heaven.


Jesus teaches that there is paradise even in the grave. Luk 16:22, Revelation 6:9, Phl 1:23       

What Jesus taught in the above verses is not the the point is that Christ did not go to paradise on the day he was crucified so the thief could not be with him in paradise on that day so we need to consider the word to day differently

    7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts   

Quote
   Just a manipulation of scripture to suit yourself. No 1 rule: never manipulate scripture to accomodate your own doctrines. Change your doctrine instead to accomodate scripture. Just because the thief wasn't resurrected on the day of death doesn't mean his soul didn't go to paradise         

I have never said he would not go to paradise in fact I said the opposite when he died he slept until Christ the time that christ will wake him up in paradise and for him it will be today.

Quote
       You added "here on earth" yourself. That's adding to Revelation which is forbidden     

Yes I did he will not reign in heaven God the Father is one who reigns supreme in heaven so the only place left to reign is here on earth plus I have given several scriptures which states that Christ will return to earth and when he dose he will reign for 1000 years.

The rest of you post boils down to what dose man in the image of God look like.

    Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh     

So man and woman joined as one is man in Gods image when Christ and his bride are joined together we will have man in Gods image the end of creation

Love and Peace
Dave

https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.13.12.ESV

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #226 on: June 10, 2021, 09:45:08 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply
As I understand the covenant with Noah it is a covenant for all mankind as for

   6  Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man     

This is referring to Israel killing Christ then Israel was killed by the romans
This is an invalid interpretation. The law given to Noah concerned human beings not peoples or nations. Beside which Christ said, "Father forgive them for they do not know what they do."

Israel was destroyed as a nation because it persisted in unbelief.

So are you saying God never said this.

          22  And the LORD God said, Behold, tree of knowledge the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever   

Seams pretty clear to me when Adam eat from the tree of knowledge he became like God as stated above when he ate from the tree he disobeyed God and chose evil instead of good.
He became more like God in the gnostic sense, in that he knew something he had no right to know. But he became less like God as to holiness, as he had broken God's command, which is why the ground was cursed because of him.

The the question is why did God place the tree of knowledge in the garden.
So mankind could chose obedience over gnosis, and to make it clear to all men that salvation, and nearness to God, is not obtained by gnosis. Beware: this is the ever present temptation, and is reflected in the gift of faith being given preferentially to those who are not worldly wise, and not philosophers.

   5  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

 47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven     

 
The first Adam in Gods image is Israel the last Adam is Jesus Christ the Adam before the flood was destroyed in the flood.
Israel is man in Gods image in the flesh and must come first.
Seems to me like you want to re-write the bible after your own conception or gnosis. Are you minded to eat of the forbidden fruit?

But if God had not allowed satan into the world there would not be any powers of darkness to overcome so why did God give satan permission to enter the world.
Satan was enthroned in heaven, and was overcome in heaven. He was defeated in heaven. This was the victory of Christ. His power is limited. His days are numbered Isa 13:22. I don't believe he has any power over the true Christian, but remains on earth to enable God to test faith by trial. Jas 1:3

Simple enough Israel was created in the image of God and as such is a mirror image of what Jesus Christ at his second advent
Complete baloney, unsubstantiable, and also blasphemous.

   For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
1 Corinthians 13:12 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.13.12.ESV     


The first Adam after the flood is Israel the man of flesh the last Adam is Jesus Christ the spiritual man.
Again gnostic claptrap. Nowhere is Israel ever called "the first Adam after the flood." You invented it. Are we here to study the bible or your gnostic theories?

Just because Israel is God's chosen, and adopted son, doesn't mean the people of Israel warrant any comparison with Christ.

If it was in the beginning it would have no purpose everything in the beginning was perfect until Adam sinned not only that but there would be no satan to give us the knowledge of good and evil so we could be like God.
I am referring to there being no logic to your millennium being in the future, for if it was ever going to occur, it would have occured after the resurrection. That it didn't happen then was because, as Christ said, "my kingdom is not of this world." Why do you contradict Christ?

What Jesus taught in the above verses is not the the point is that Christ did not go to paradise on the day he was crucified so the thief could not be with him in paradise on that day so we need to consider the word to day differently
How do you know Christ didn't go to paradise? If he said that is where he was going, that is where he went.

    7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts   

I have never said he would not go to paradise in fact I said the opposite when he died he slept until Christ the time that christ will wake him up in paradise and for him it will be today.
Ingenious, but perverse. When Christ said "today" he meant the day of crucifixion (obviously).

Yes I did he will not reign in heaven God the Father is one who reigns supreme in heaven so the only place left to reign is here on earth plus I have given several scriptures which states that Christ will return to earth and when he dose he will reign for 1000 years.
Complete rubbish, and everything I need to know to confirm that you are Arian through and through; and Arians are not orthodox Christians, and no Christians at all by most people's reckoning. You've disclosed your partiality for JW before, so no real surprise I guess.

Heb 8:1 "We have a High Priest who sat down in the place of honor beside the throne of the majestic God in heaven."

Rev 3:21 "Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne."

Jhn 6:62 "Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!"

Rev 1:8 ?I am the Alpha and the Omega,? says the Lord God, ?who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.?

Christ sits on his father's throne, and also has his own throne of judgement. From Rev 1:8, the risen Christ is fully God.

To the lamb belongs the seven spirits of God

Rev 5:6 "Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[fn] of God sent out into all the earth."

The rest of you post boils down to what dose man in the image of God look like.

    Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh     

So man and woman joined as one is man in Gods image when Christ and his bride are joined together we will have man in Gods image the end of creation
As I have said before Christ is already joined to his bride, and man must become in God's image in this life and be joined to Christ in this life to inherit salvation. It doesn't await a future event.

If you don't consider this to be so, it's because you worship angels, not Christ.

Col 2:19 "They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow."


https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.13.12.ESV

Online davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #227 on: June 11, 2021, 01:16:05 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
     This is an invalid interpretation. The law given to Noah concerned human beings not peoples or nations. Beside which Christ said, "Father forgive them for they do not know what they do."

Israel was destroyed as a nation because it persisted in unbelief       

Everything in scripture is about Gods son Jesus Christ and creation from beginning to end and should be viewed and interpreted as such.

Quote
       He became more like God in the gnostic sense, in that he knew something he had no right to know. But he became less like God as to holiness, as he had broken God's command, which is why the ground was cursed because of him.     

Of course he had a right to know that's why God put the tree of knowledge in the garden and I believe that tree is satan as Christ is the tree of life and we have to choose the tree of life which means we have to

   37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

 38  This is the first and great commandment.

 39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets       


We have to choose love God is love.

Quote
        Seems to me like you want to re-write the bible after your own conception or gnosis. Are you minded to eat of the forbidden fruit     

I don't want to re-write it just believe what it says
I wonder what gnosis means

Quote
      Simple enough Israel was created in the image of God and as such is a mirror image of what Jesus Christ at his second advent


Complete baloney, unsubstantiable, and also blasphemous.
     

I take it from that answer you don't have one
God had two sons one created Israel one begotten both went into Egypt both were called out of Egypt both went into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil the elder son Israel had 12 tribes one the tribe of Dan was rejected and the two sons of Joseph taken in instead Christ had 12 apostles one Judus was rejected and two others were taken in in stead.
All this cannot be coincidence.

Quote
     Again gnostic claptrap. Nowhere is Israel ever called "the first Adam after the flood." You invented it. Are we here to study the bible or your gnostic theories?
     

No he's  not but he is first son God creates after the flood as the first Adam before the flood was destroyed in the flood it stands to reason the first son God creates after the flood Israel is the image of his Father and can be called Adam as is younger brother Christ is called the last Adam.

Quote
How do you know Christ didn't go to paradise? If he said that is where he was going, that is where he went         

If he went strait to paradise it would mean he did not die and there could not be a resurrection and the whole of Christianity falls apart.

Quote
     Complete rubbish, and everything I need to know to confirm that you are Arian through and through; and Arians are not orthodox Christians, and no Christians at all by most people's reckoning. You've disclosed your partiality for JW before, so no real surprise I guess     

Seams you enjoy calling people names I think it's very unchristian.
As for Christ in heaven at the right hand of God the Father this is a fact and he will remain there until he returns

    Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen       

Quote
      As I have said before Christ is already joined to his bride, and man must become in God's image in this life and be joined to Christ in this life to inherit salvation. It doesn't await a future event     

If Christ and his church were joined now it would mean the church would be in heaven were Christ is in which case there would be no resurrection of the dead that we are in the body of Christ is correct but the body and head have not bean joined yet.

Love and Peace
Dave


Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #228 on: June 11, 2021, 02:03:42 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Everything in scripture is about Gods son Jesus Christ and creation from beginning to end and should be viewed and interpreted as such.

Of course he had a right to know that's why God put the tree of knowledge in the garden and I believe that tree is satan as Christ is the tree of life and we have to choose the tree of life which means we have to
It was the devil (in this case the serpent) who tempted. The tree of knowledge didn't tempt, so wasn't the devil. The object of desire is not the devil. It is rather the one who leads one into a deceptive belief that the object can and should be possessed.

   37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

 38  This is the first and great commandment.

 39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets       


We have to choose love God is love.
Wishywashy.

I don't want to re-write it just believe what it says
Unfortunately I don't see much evidence of you believing the bible. I wonder if anyone else shares my views.

I wonder what gnosis means
Esoteric knowledge unnecessary for, or harmful to, salvation (related to gnosticism). Such as your millennium doctrine.

I take it from that answer you don't have one
My answer is that I cannot identify with your unscriptural assertions, which are contrary to all sound doctrine. Christ at his second coming will be as God himself, not like Israel.

God had two sons one created Israel one begotten both went into Egypt both were called out of Egypt both went into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil the elder son Israel had 12 tribes one the tribe of Dan was rejected and the two sons of Joseph taken in instead Christ had 12 apostles one Judus was rejected and two others were taken in in stead.
All this cannot be coincidence.
Types and antitypes. Rather mark the coventantal distinctions. See Heb Ch 8, Gal 4:24,25.

No he's  not but he is first son God creates after the flood as the first Adam before the flood was destroyed in the flood it stands to reason the first son God creates after the flood Israel is the image of his Father and can be called Adam as is younger brother Christ is called the last Adam.
Israel was an unfaithful adopted son, a slave, and wasn't in the image of God. It's why Christ had to come, to institute a new covenant: Gal 4:24,25.

If he went strait to paradise it would mean he did not die and there could not be a resurrection and the whole of Christianity falls apart.
Rubbish. You just reject what the bible plainly states.

Seams you enjoy calling people names I think it's very unchristian.
Seems you don't like truth. May be you should learn some church history. There is nothing new under the sun. History repeats itself, and it seems you are determined to reinstate the Arian heresy.

If you think God and Christ cannot reign in heaven together, you are denying that they are one and denying pretty much everything Jesus said about himself. Everything you have said shows you are no orthodox Christian.

As for Christ in heaven at the right hand of God the Father this is a fact and he will remain there until he returns
I never knew he was going to depart from God's right hand.

    Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen       

If Christ and his church were joined now it would mean the church would be in heaven were Christ is in which case there would be no resurrection of the dead that we are in the body of Christ is correct but the body and head have not bean joined yet.
No it wouldn't mean anything of the sort, because Christ can be joined to a human believer via the Holy Spirit, and that human doesn't need to be in heaven itself. Also note: Eph 2:6 "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,"

Online davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #229 on: June 12, 2021, 04:03:01 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
    It was the devil (in this case the serpent) who tempted. The tree of knowledge didn't tempt, so wasn't the devil. The object of desire is not the devil. It is rather the one who leads one into a deceptive belief that the object can and should be possessed       

Yes it was the devil who tempted them he tempted them to eat from the tree it's the tree that gives the knowledge of good and evil

Quote
       37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

 38  This is the first and great commandment.

 39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets       

We have to choose love God is love.


Wishywashy
   

So God is wishy-washy I believe God is the greatest power in the universe and GOD IS LOVE.

Quote
      My answer is that I cannot identify with your unscriptural assertions, which are contrary to all sound doctrine. Christ at his second coming will be as God himself, not like Israel     

I have never said that Chist will come like Israel please do not misquote me and Christ will come as himself.

[quoteu]   Israel was an unfaithful adopted son, a slave, and wasn't in the image of God. It's why Christ had to come, to institute a new covenant: Gal 4:24,25 [/quote]

Israel was created by God as his son and the son of every creature is the image of his Farther.

Quote
     Rubbish. You just reject what the bible plainly states     

The bible plainly states that Christ died and was buried and rose again on the third day.

Quote
  No it wouldn't mean anything of the sort, because Christ can be joined to a human believer via the Holy Spirit, and that human doesn't need to be in heaven itself. Also note: Eph 2:6 "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus             

That we enter the body of Christ when we believe I have not denied and when we die we sleep in Christ until he returns for all those who are still alive who will join all those who have died this is the first resurrection.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #230 on: June 12, 2021, 10:30:16 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Yes it was the devil who tempted them he tempted them to eat from the tree it's the tree that gives the knowledge of good and evil

So God is wishy-washy I believe God is the greatest power in the universe and GOD IS LOVE.
It's just words. Next you have to work out what "love" means. In English there are multiple different shades of meaning incorporated into the one word "love". "God is love" is surely one of the most ambiguously translated verses in the bibe. In this instance, the Greek shows love equates in meaning to "good will." But note Heb 10:29. God's love does not extend to those who trample the spirit of grace, i.e. take culpable liberties with God's grace, such as preaching false doctrines e.g. Gal 5:10-12


I have never said that Chist will come like Israel please do not misquote me and Christ will come as himself.
You said:
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Simple enough Israel was created in the image of God and as such is a mirror image of what Jesus Christ at his second advent
How did I misquote you?

Israel was created by God as his son and the son of every creature is the image of his Farther.
It's very shallow theology you're offering. You really need to grasp the bible better, as I have said, in terms of the different covenants.

As Gal 4 shows, Israel had an inferior, relatively unspiritual, covenant, although the law itself was spiritual:

Gal 4:1 "What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate.
Gal 4:2 "The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father.
Gal 4:3 "So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces[basic principles] of the world.

So Israel was by definition not in the image of God, because he was "under age." Like a young child to his father, he might look vaguely similar in terms of external appearance (i.e. having the law), but the reality was that Israel was weak, ignorant, unfaithful and prone to sin, and needed constant discipline. So he was not in the spiritual image of his Father.

Moreover the simile that you're using "image of God" was never used by the bible of Israel. It is reserved for Christ when applied at a spiritual level, but for mankind when applied as a moral level (Adam),

The bible plainly states that Christ died and was buried and rose again on the third day.
It does.

That we enter the body of Christ when we believe I have not denied and when we die we sleep in Christ until he returns for all those who are still alive who will join all those who have died this is the first resurrection.
True, and that sleep is in paradise. And as Rev 20 shows, may be some will not sleep but "be made alive." In any case, the nature of this "sleep" is metaphorical as it is being applied to the spirit/soul, not the body. We are not  exactly told what it entails.

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #231 on: June 13, 2021, 01:47:06 PM »
Hi eik
So God is just words I don't think so you can use grammar and languages all you like means nothing at all God is LOVE and as such is the greatest power in the universe think of everything he has created and its all done through love and for love and if we are to be part of his new world we must love God and love each 0ther and we must love our enemies the only thing that's impossible for God to do is make us love it would not be love we would be just programed robots.

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       Simple enough Israel was created in the image of God and as such is a mirror image of what Jesus Christ at his second advent

How did I misquote you   

All I said was he is the image of God and as such he would be the image of Christ who is the image of God which makes them brothers but Christ shall come in his glory the chosen son of God.

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       So Israel was by definition not in the image of God, because he was "under age." Like a young child to his father, he might look vaguely similar in terms of external appearance (i.e. having the law), but the reality was that Israel was weak, ignorant, unfaithful and prone to sin, and needed constant discipline. So he was not in the spiritual image of his Father       

Your right there was nothing about Israel that was spiritual he was man in God image in the flesh and the man of flesh must come first then comes the spiritual man which is Christ and its always the younger son who is chosen.

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       True, and that sleep is in paradise. And as Rev 20 shows, may be some will not sleep but "be made alive." In any case, the nature of this "sleep" is metaphorical as it is being applied to the spirit/soul, not the body. We are not  exactly told what it entails     

When we sleep we have no consciousness of whats going on around us we may be asleep for a 1000 years but when Christ returns and wakes us up it will be today hence his words to the thief today you will be whit me in paradise.

Love and Peace
Dave

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