Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 13316 times)

eik and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 403
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #216 on: June 04, 2021, 09:43:19 PM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply if Christ went to school or not dose not matter all I'm saying is it is not in the bible so I assume we don't need to know so we can drop this silly argument.
The argument arose out of me saying he was a natural human being who would have needed to go to school. You disagreed and said that everything was revealed to him by the Holy Spirit, inferring he didn't need to go through a normal educational process. I said he wasn't in the mold of Hermes, a Greek God, who needed no human education.

Jesus was not a god come down from heaven, retaining God's form in its completeness, but was "made in the likeness of men" Phl 2:7, which means that when he was born he was ignorant. I have no doubt that through the Holy Spirit Jesus discerned many things that ordinary mortals didn't discern, but as the scripture says, you have to worship God with your mind to gain the Holy Spirit, which means going to school. If he had not gone to school / temple to learn the scriptures, he wouldn't have worshipped God properly.


As for the whole of the creation account in Genesis everything it says was created before the flood and I believe every word of it I also believe that God destroyed this creation in the flood this included the first Adam.
After the flood God began a new creation of a new Adam which would be Israel everything else was on the ark it was only man in his image that was missing.
This is a fairly tale. Nowhere does the bible ever says such things. I can't be bothered to refute what the bible never says (I refer to the underlined part).


Christ will reign for a 1000 years as stated in the bible you can be absolutely certain of it.
The bible doesn't say Christ will reign for 1000 years. That is another thing the bible never says. It says the saints will reign with Christ for 1000 years. That is not the same as what you have said.

How do you know your not.
Because  I have no agenda that is separate from scripture. I have no need to dogmatize further than what scripture actually says. I am not secretive about my background. I don't aim to fill the world with my personal delusory propaganda that is the stuff of cults (i.e. an obsession with the millennium). I do not usurp Christ or promote myself. I acknowledge that others know far more than me. I do not offer opinions I cannot substantiate from the bible. I do not suspend righteousness until some future millennium. I do not use Revelation to create a novel theology that is separate from anything the apostles taught.

You said the Father was resting which contradicts the above verse.
Why not read the bible yourself?
I say no more or less than that the Father rested from his regular work: Gen 2:2 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

The same laws apply to the physical and the spiritual that the believer is born into the body of Christ goes without saying and Christ and his body will be united at his second comming.
I am not with you. The law of Christ is not coincident with the laws of men (Col 2:21-23).

Then they will reign for a thousand years

You have denied through this entire discussion that Christ will not return to earth but will reign from heaven which is contrary to what the bible teaches.
The bible never says Christ will reign on earth. That is your teaching. Moreover, and what is far worse than any speculation about the "millennium", is that millennialism is elevated by you into a primary belief, equivalent in importance to Christology and soteriology. Very "United Church of God."  Your theoology also raises major questions concerning discontinuity and continuity between the Old and New Testaments, which threatens the gospel of grace by imposing legalism on Christians.

May be you really are UCG? I think so, or something similar.

As for Christ, who sits on his Father's throne, reigning from heaven, it is foundational. As Rev says in various places, Christ sits on his Father's throne, which is in heaven. Also:

Dan 7:13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[fn] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."

Dan 7:14 "He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."

It is clear that all this takes place in heaven, and that the kingdom of Christ is for more than 1000 years.

At the transfiguration when those who are alive recieve their spiritual bodies and join those who have died and been resurrected then the new Jerusalem will be formed and will com down to earth with Christ at its head and reign here on earth for a thousand year.
Why didn't Christ explain it so then? Are you putting words into his mouth?


Prove this statement from scripture.
Eph 4:24 "put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness."

Col 3:10 " [you have] put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator."

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3519
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #217 on: June 06, 2021, 11:37:51 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
  After the flood God began a new creation of a new Adam which would be Israel everything else was on the ark it was only man in his image that was missing.


This is a fairly tale. Nowhere does the bible ever says such things. I can't be bothered to refute what the bible never says (I refer to the underlined part           

But what the bible dose say is God created Israel and God dose say about Israel

  When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Hosea 11:1 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/hos.11.1.ESV       


So as Gods son he would be created in the image of his Father who is God and he would be created in the same way as the first Adam that God destroyed in the flood.

Quote
    The bible doesn't say Christ will reign for 1000 years. That is another thing the bible never says. It says the saints will reign with Christ for 1000 years. That is not the same as what you have said     

  Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

 Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years       


Here are two verses that says he will

Quote
     Why not read the bible yourself?
I say no more or less than that the Father rested from his regular work: Gen 2:2 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made   

You still refuse to believe what our Lord said on this subject.

     Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work   

       But Jesus answered them, ?My Father is working until now, and I am working.?
John 5:17 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.17.ESV           


Seams pretty strait forward to me if the Father was still working up until the time of Christ and looking at the state of the world at the present  I don't think he's rested yet so his Sabbath rest is a future event.

Quote
     I am not with you. The law of Christ is not coincident with the laws of men (Col 2:21-23).       

I never mentioned the laws of men.

Quote
   As for Christ, who sits on his Father's throne, reigning from heaven, it is foundational. As Rev says in various places, Christ sits on his Father's throne, which is in heaven. Also       

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; View more

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. note View more

1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him           


Seams to me Christ is at Gods right hand

Quote
  Dan 7:14 "He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."

It is clear that all this takes place in heaven, and that the kingdom of Christ is for more than 1000 years         

Not clear to me all nations and peoples are on earth not in heaven and its the new heaven and earth which are eternal.

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/59/hos.11.1.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.17.ESV

Online eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 403
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #218 on: June 06, 2021, 03:13:14 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

But what the bible dose say is God created Israel and God dose say about Israel

  When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Hosea 11:1 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/hos.11.1.ESV       


So as Gods son he would be created in the image of his Father who is God and he would be created in the same way as the first Adam that God destroyed in the flood.
No, because Israel was God's adopted son, so not in the image of his Father, but rather adopted to become the image of the Father. And the adoption of Israel has nothing to do with the creation of Adam.

Rom 9:4 "....Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption."


  Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

 Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years       


Here are two verses that says he will

You still refuse to believe what our Lord said on this subject.
I refuse to believe what you say on the subject ("i.e. Christ will reign on earth") which is not what the bible says (above). You are not God such that you can posit a new theology based on Revelation, which is precluded by Revelation itself (Rev 22:18,19).

That is why "all" millennialism of the "Christ will reign physically on earth" variety is cultic, because it enforces the doctrine of men, not God: men who may well be destroyed on the day of judgement for perverting the scriptures to "draw away men after them," as it infers that Christ's sacrifice for sin was incomplete, such that he needed to return to earth a second time to save men from their sins.

The simple fact is, nowhere in the bible does it ever say "Christ will reign physically on earth."

Any attempt to infer people who do not subscribe to the doctrine of "Christ will reign physically on earth" as disbelieving what Christ has said is affirmation that the doctrine is cultic: in fact a nasty cult that people would be well advised to stay clear of. As if the church of God was ever inclined to such a position in the centuries it has been in existence? The references to Chiliasm in the early fathers are sparse and speculative. It was never seen as doctrine.

Did the apostles ever condemn anyone for assuming that Christ would only return to earth to gather his church for salvation? No.

Matt 24:31,32 "they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

"Gathering" is all that is going to happen when Christ returns, followed by judgement.

     Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work   

       But Jesus answered them, ?My Father is working until now, and I am working.?
John 5:17 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.17.ESV           


Seams pretty strait forward to me if the Father was still working up until the time of Christ and looking at the state of the world at the present  I don't think he's rested yet so his Sabbath rest is a future event.
Seems pretty straightforward to me that Christ worked on the Sabbath, and if Christ can, so too can God.

Luk 13:14 "And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day,"

I never mentioned the laws of men.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; View more

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. note View more

1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him           


Seams to me Christ is at Gods right hand
If Christ is at God's right hand, he is not on earth.

Not clear to me all nations and peoples are on earth not in heaven and its the new heaven and earth which are eternal.
It's the reign of Christ which is eternal. Whether people are in earth or in heaven is quite irrelevant to that truth.
https://bible.com/bible/59/hos.11.1.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.17.ESV

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3519
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #219 on: June 07, 2021, 12:27:15 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
    No, because Israel was God's adopted son, so not in the image of his Father, but rather adopted to become the image of the Father. And the adoption of Israel has nothing to do with the creation of Adam         

Adopted or not God created Israel and called him is son and as such the laws of nature says that children are the image of their parents so Israel is the image of his Father who is God.
And as Gods son he would be Adam and would be created in the same way as the first Adam before the flood and also Israel would be created in the same way as the last Adam which is Christ.
If you follow the life of Christ and the history of Israel they both follow the same path its just that Christ did it in a shorter time

   Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened         

Quote
  I refuse to believe what you say on the subject ("i.e. Christ will reign on earth") which is not what the bible says (above). You are not God such that you can posit a new theology based on Revelation, which is precluded by Revelation itself       

You can refuse to believe what I say but you have to believe what God says in the bible.
We both agree that Christ has been reigning from heaven from the beginning of creation so why are these 1000 years singled out for special attention why are they mentioned if Christ shall continue to reign from heaven makes no sense.

Quote
     Seems pretty straightforward to me that Christ worked on the Sabbath, and if Christ can, so too can God.     

That Christ worked on the Sabbath is not in question at that the Father rested on the Sabbath is not in question the only question is when is the Fathers Sabbath rest.
I say its Christs millennial reign which is a future event and we can enter the Fathers sabbath rest.

  9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. note

 10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief         


Quote
      If Christ is at God's right hand, he is not on earth.     

I have not said Christ is on earth but he will be during his millennial reign reign.

Love and Peace
Dave

Online eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 403
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #220 on: June 07, 2021, 07:59:04 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Adopted or not God created Israel and called him is son and as such the laws of nature says that children are the image of their parents so Israel is the image of his Father who is God.
An adopted son is not the same as a begotten son. This is why it is said of Christ, "God's only begotten son." Moreover you seem to have overlooked that the very purpose of salvation is to turn adopted sons into real sons, and that such are not born, but made through their salvation.

Rom 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Again, God called Israel out of Egypt. When Israel was called it did not have the law, nor any covenant, nor any obedience from observing the law. And yet Israel was called God's son even from Egypt.

So there is something of a lacuna in your grasp of the process of transformation from being a predestined, and adopted son, to the likeness of the real son, achieved by the process of salvation in this life. Such a process must occur in this life, because it won't occur in the next.

And as Gods son he would be Adam and would be created in the same way as the first Adam before the flood and also Israel would be created in the same way as the last Adam which is Christ.
No, this is not correct, and potentially blasphemous for equating mere men with Christ. The first Adam was created in a sinless state, but fell from that State. Israel was fallen when chosen, and adopted for the purpose of salvation, and was a type of the Christian church, and therefore not comparable with Christ, being not a natural son, as Christ was, but an adopted son.

If you follow the life of Christ and the history of Israel they both follow the same path its just that Christ did it in a shorter time
I don't accept that Israel and Christ bear any comparison. Christ was the begotten son of God, Israel was not.

   Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened         

You can refuse to believe what I say but you have to believe what God says in the bible.

We both agree that Christ has been reigning from heaven from the beginning of creation so why are these 1000 years singled out for special attention why are they mentioned if Christ shall continue to reign from heaven makes no sense.
I have pointed out  to you countless times that the feature of the 1000 years is the reign of the resurrected saints WITH Christ, along with the binding of satan. To me this suggests a period of time when the memory of the martyrs will be honoured, and where paganism or naked idolatry is suppressed, which has happened in history. However it is also a period of time when men will continue to be wicked and deceived by their own wickedness.

That Christ worked on the Sabbath is not in question at that the Father rested on the Sabbath is not in question the only question is when is the Fathers Sabbath rest.
Gen 2:1-3 and Heb 4:10 make clear that "when" is in the past.

I say its Christs millennial reign which is a future event and we can enter the Fathers sabbath rest.
The operative word above being "I" and not "the bible." You won't mind if I follow the bible?

  9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. note

 10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief         

Well then, since you are already aware of Heb 4:10, why don't you take it into account? The rest of the people of God is the rest that comes by obedience to God. So this is to remind us that being baptized does not guarantee entry into God's rest: we must continue to strive. If we had entered into that rest permanently on baptism, then the High Calvinists would have a point. But there is such a thing as falling away.

God's rest is here equated with the reward for finishing the course (2Ti 4:7-8).

I have not said Christ is on earth but he will be during his millennial reign reign.
Again the operative word above is "I". It doesn't count for anything as you are not recognized as an authority, or knowledgeable enough to be an authority. It's just your opinion. In the realm of opinions, there are others more valuable than yours.

And more to the point, you have yet to give any theological explanation of why Christ who is God would descend from his father's throne "again" to be bound by old earth. Redeeming man from sin isn't a good reason. Sorry, this is just "your" sci-fi.

You just don't seem to grasp how far the idea of Christ returning to earth as a man casts your entire theological system as confused and heretical and in exactly the same mold as the Pharisees etc at the time of Christ, who were looking for a god-man to rule the world. Jesus said it isn't going to happen. But you say it is? Strange. You are the one contradicting Christ.

Millennialism,  and the physical reign of a re-incarnate Christ essentially nullifies the purpose of Christ's first coming. For if obedience could be achieved by Christ reigning from Jerusalem, why then didn't he do in in AD 30, the first time around? Answer me that.

You realize that disseminating such views would be a plausible reason to excommunicate as denying Matt 24? It's why such dispensationalists tend to combine into their own churches,  or must lead a lonely existence, because their views always tend to usurp orthodox theology. Surely most modern gnosticism includes some variant of millennialism, unless it is just rank antinomianism.

IMO they will find it difficult to grow to spiritual maturity because they have to spend so much time on their theories, that they miss what God actually wants them to learn.

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3519
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #221 on: June 08, 2021, 02:56:27 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
     An adopted son is not the same as a begotten son. This is why it is said of Christ, "God's only begotten son." Moreover you seem to have overlooked that the very purpose of salvation is to turn adopted sons into real sons, and that such are not born, but made through their salvation     

Which ever way you look at it Israel is Gods son and God created Israel as his son and as such he would be created in Gods image.
There has to be a reason why God created Israel what was it.


Quote
       Again, God called Israel out of Egypt. When Israel was called it did not have the law, nor any covenant, nor any obedience from observing the law. And yet Israel was called God's son even from Egypt         

When Israel was born created out of Egypt he was only a child so his Father took him and taught him and disciplined him and loved him he did this through the law.

Quote
     No, this is not correct, and potentially blasphemous for equating mere men with Christ. The first Adam was created in a sinless state, but fell from that State. Israel was fallen when chosen, and adopted for the purpose of salvation, and was a type of the Christian church, and therefore not comparable with Christ, being not a natural son, as Christ was, but an adopted son       

To be in the image of God we must have the knowledge of good and evil

   22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever       

Israel received this knowledge when they received the law the reason for this is we have to choose the good and reject the evil and the best way to do this is through love as our Lord taught us.

Israel was created in Gods image Moses was the head of the nation
Represents God Aaron is the high priest represents Christ and the tribe of Levi represents the church the woman and the other 11 tribes are the children represents all those who are saved through Christ
This is what man in Gods image looks like.

Quote
      I don't accept that Israel and Christ bear any comparison. Christ was the begotten son of God, Israel was not     

Begotten or adopted makes no difference they are both Gods sons and as such  would be the image of our heavenly Father Christ is the high priest and his bride the church is his woman his helper this mirrors Aaron the high priest and the Levites his woman helper.
So they are both created after the same pattern we have in Genesis which is Adam and we know that Christ is the last Adam.

Quote
   I have pointed out  to you countless times that the feature of the 1000 years is the reign of the resurrected saints WITH Christ, along with the binding of satan. To me this suggests a period of time when the memory of the martyrs will be honoured, and where paganism or naked idolatry is suppressed, which has happened in history. However it is also a period of time when men will continue to be wicked and deceived by their own wickedness         

The millenium is the time when Satan is locked away and Christ and his church will reign supreme Over the whole world it will be a time of preaching and teaching the gospel with no interference from satan.

Quote
Gen 2:1-3 and Heb 4:10 make clear that "when" is in the past         

   8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. note

 9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. note

 10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief     

 1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

 2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

 3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made                   


We can enter Gods rest for all those who are alive and dead it is a future event we will not need to go back thousands of years to do it God rests when the creation is complete and that is when man in the Image of God is finished and that man is Christ Jesus our Lord this is the end of creation and the beginning of the Fathers sabbath rest and we can enter that rest

Quote
     MThe operative word above being "I" and not "the bible." You won't mind if I follow the bible         

The bible says that Christ shall reign for 1000 years

Quote
      Again the operative word above is "I". It doesn't count for anything as you are not recognized as an authority, or knowledgeable enough to be an authority. It's just your opinion. In the realm of opinions, there are others more valuable than yours.         

Your right my word and your word counts for nottheir hing what counts and the only authority we have is Gods word as we have it in the scriptures and as I have said before I only say how Gods word speaks to me and at the moment it makes perfect sense yes it is my opinion and the only reason I put it on here is in the hope that it will encourage someone to pick up their bible and start reading even if its only to proove me wrong.

Love and Peace
Dave

Online eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 403
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #222 on: June 08, 2021, 08:41:57 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Which ever way you look at it Israel is Gods son and God created Israel as his son and as such he would be created in Gods image.
There has to be a reason why God created Israel what was it.

When Israel was born created out of Egypt he was only a child so his Father took him and taught him and disciplined him and loved him he did this through the law.
I don't follow you. The bible says "God chose Israel." Deu 10:15 "He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day."

Why not start again from the bible position? God chose Israel [for salvation], not "God created Israel"


To be in the image of God we must have the knowledge of good and evil
I don't agree. Knowledge is not necessary to be in the image of God, otherwise no-one would be as we know nothing compared to God. Also the apostle said "I want you to be wise about what is good, and yet innocent about what is evil." Rom 16:19. We don't have to know about evil. Also Jesus said to the innocent children, that the kingdom of God is of them.

   22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever       
But you forget that it was God who created Adam in the image of God, whereas it was Adam who sinned. Logical issue here.

Israel received this knowledge when they received the law the reason for this is we have to choose the good and reject the evil and the best way to do this is through love as our Lord taught us.
The law was put in place to lead us to Christ. Nothing to do with knowledge for its own sake, but for obedience sake.

Gal 3:19 "Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary."

Israel was created in Gods image Moses was the head of the nation
Represents God Aaron is the high priest represents Christ and the tribe of Levi represents the church the woman and the other 11 tribes are the children represents all those who are saved through Christ
This is what man in Gods image looks like.
So what's the distinction / differentiation between the church and "those who are saved through Christ?" Sounds gnostic.

Begotten or adopted makes no difference they are both Gods sons and as such  would be the image of our heavenly Father Christ is the high priest and his bride the church is his woman his helper this mirrors Aaron the high priest and the Levites his woman helper.
So they are both created after the same pattern we have in Genesis which is Adam and we know that Christ is the last Adam.
You are absolutely wrong there. Begotten or adopted makes ALL the difference. The former was in God's image from birth. The latter only put on the image of God by being saved. As for the rest....too wild.

The millenium is the time when Satan is locked away and Christ and his church will reign supreme Over the whole world it will be a time of preaching and teaching the gospel with no interference from satan.
So why wasn't it put in place at the beginning?

   8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. note

 9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. note

 10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief     

 1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

 2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

 3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made                   


We can enter Gods rest for all those who are alive and dead it is a future event we will not need to go back thousands of years to do it God rests when the creation is complete and that is when man in the Image of God is finished and that man is Christ Jesus our Lord this is the end of creation and the beginning of the Fathers sabbath rest and we can enter that rest
No, the thief on the cross entered paradise (God's rest) on his death. Jesus said "Today." Not "in the future".

The bible says that Christ shall reign for 1000 years
No, the bible says the saints will reign for 1000 years (with Christ).

Your right my word and your word counts for nottheir hing what counts and the only authority we have is Gods word as we have it in the scriptures and as I have said before I only say how Gods word speaks to me and at the moment it makes perfect sense yes it is my opinion and the only reason I put it on here is in the hope that it will encourage someone to pick up their bible and start reading even if its only to proove me wrong.
I don't believe much of what you say, and you haven't inspired me. Sorry. Yours is a gnostic gospel, i.e. a gospel of salvation through knowledge of what God had made, that I simply can't credit with truth or with any salvific power. If I can't believe in it, it's useless. The gospel isn't about the millennium, but about the present life. If you can't acknowledge that Jesus is God's begotten son, which you seen unable to do, as you compare him to Israel, and which is a basic problem, then your version of Christianity is also Arian and heretical on that account. You substitute manmade theories for knowing God.

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3519
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #223 on: June 09, 2021, 01:28:32 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
    I don't follow you. The bible says "God chose Israel." Deu 10:15 "He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day."

Why not start again from the bible position? God chose Israel [for salvation], not "God created Israel         

God chose Jakob who became Israel and God took this one man and from him created the nation of Israel which is man in Gods image.

Quote
       I don't agree. Knowledge is not necessary to be in the image of God, otherwise no-one would be as we know nothing compared to God. Also the apostle said "I want you to be wise about what is good, and yet innocent about what is evil." Rom 16:19. We don't have to know about evil. Also Jesus said to the innocent children, that the kingdom of God is of them     

So you don't believe what God said in Genesis that we need the knowledge of good and evil to be like God.

    22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever     

It also begs the question why was satan allowed into the world if God can bind him for a 1000 years then cast him into the lake of fire why did he not do it in the beginning God must have had a good reason.

Quote
    But you forget that it was God who created Adam in the image of God, whereas it was Adam who sinned. Logical issue here     

I have not forgot anything God created Adam and Adam chose to disobey God and chose evil over good and its the same choice we all have to make and the choice we need to make is to follow the laws of love as given to us by our Lord Jesus Christ if we love as our Lord has commanded we comply with all of Gods laws.
This is why satan and evil is in the world so that we can choose to love love comes at terrible price and its the only thing God cannot do is make us love we must choose to do it ourselves from the heart.

Quote
  So what's the distinction / differentiation between the church and "those who are saved through Christ?" Sounds gnostic         

Don't understand the question

Quote
     You are absolutely wrong there. Begotten or adopted makes ALL the difference. The former was in God's image from birth. The latter only put on the image of God by being saved. As for the rest....too wild.         

Christ and Israel are both sons of God and as such they are both in the image of God as was the first Adam.

Quote
     The millenium is the time when Satan is locked away and Christ and his church will reign supreme Over the whole world it will be a time of preaching and teaching the gospel with no interference from satan.


So why wasn't it put in place at the beginning       

You'll have to ask God that one for myself I believe it was because we have to choose between good and evil.

Quote
    No, the thief on the cross entered paradise (God's rest) on his death. Jesus said "Today." Not "in the future       

We know that our Lord did not go into paradise on that day he went into the grave for three days then he was resurrected and was here on earth until he was taken up to heaven.
As for the thief he died on that day and he will be raised up on the last day which is Christ millennium and for the thief it will be today.

Quote
      The bible says that Christ shall reign for 1000 years


No, the bible says the saints will reign for 1000 years (with Christ       

   and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years   

Yes thats what the bible says that Christ and his bride will reign here on earth for 1000 years.

Quote
   I don't believe much of what you say, and you haven't inspired me. Sorry. Yours is a gnostic gospel, i.e. a gospel of salvation through knowledge of what God had made, that I simply can't credit with truth or with any salvific power. If I can't believe in it, it's useless. The gospel isn't about the millennium, but about the present life. If you can't acknowledge that Jesus is God's begotten son, which you seen unable to do, as you compare him to Israel, and which is a basic problem, then your version of Christianity is also Arian and heretical on that account. You substitute manmade theories for knowing God         

You do not need to believe anything I say but you do have to believe Gods word which don't seam to want to do you prefer the words of men.

I have never ever said that Jesus was not Gods begotten son and I object to you saying I did yes Jesus Christ is Gods only begotten son as stated plainly in scripture

Love and Peace
Dave

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal