Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 13313 times)

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Online eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #208 on: May 31, 2021, 04:10:21 PM »

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply

This is pure speculation as far as I can see there's nothing in scripture to support what you say.
I think that there is:

Luk 2:40 "And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him."

Luk 2:52 "And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man."

This shows the results of a beneficial human education


The weekly sabbath which Jews and Christians keep is a reminder that God the Father rested when he had finished his creation the end of which was man in his image which is Christ at his second comming Gods Sabbath rest is a future event and is absolutely certain its a done deal.

     1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

 2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

 3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made     


The end of Gods creation is man in the image of God and the only one who is said to be the image of God is Jesus Chist
You can't put the future into the past, or vice versa. You can't "remember" the future. You don't "remind" yourself of what will come to pass by pretending it already has come to pass.

So this is now the circa the 11th time you've disdained Gen 2:1-3, which is plain enough. You clearly reject it.

You're engaged in re-writing the bible.  What I just don't get is your motivation.

     Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high     

This is said of no other person in the whole of scripture so when Christ is united with his bride we will have man in the image of God the end of creation.
I just don't get why you think Christ is not already united with his church. Is this a personal thing? I could credit it (Col 2:19).

Nobody has to believe a word I say I would ask that they believe the scriptures I quote believe what the bible says not what men say it says.
The trouble is that you don't just quote "what the bible says" but you are always re-interpreting it and re-phrasing it and re-wording it.

I have never come across anyone so devoted to their own opinions as you. It's not a good omen.

How on earth do you work that out there is absolutly nothing in scripture that says Noah had servants to say he did is adding words to Gods words and to say he had servants on the ark is even worse.
You can't affirm something from a vacuum. You can't say he didn't have servants when the bible never says so.

On the balance of probability, as Noah was a potentate and built a huge ark, we can assume he had servants, just like all the others.

This can apply to you as well what authority do you have I'm still waiting for your interpretation of the creation account in Genesis.
I take Gen 2:1-3 into account. You clearly don't. The bible is my authority. I don't project Genesis into the future. If you think that is a natural thing to do, I feel really sorry for you. Sometimes I think I come to a house of delirium, talking to someone who owns no church, who rejects authority and "does what he wills."

I don't think you get the point that Christianity is not a solo endeavour. I reject your teaching, your method, and your pretensions in rejecting centuries of wholesome biblical exegesis for the sake of your own wild west theories.

Are you doing harm or good in pretending that Genesis refers to a future event? Sounds like sci-fi to me. The fact is that you denigrate man by saying that he is not in the image of God. That is a very serious issue.

 

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #209 on: June 01, 2021, 11:56:25 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply

Quote
   I think that there is:

Luk 2:40 "And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him."

Luk 2:52 "And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man."

This shows the results of a beneficial human education       

I think these verses support what I have said they say absolutely nothing about going to school or receiving a human education more likely he got his wisdom from God the Father and how could Christ say the following

    49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business     

If he was only reliant on the words of man who had got gods words wrong.

Quote
     You can't put the future into the past, or vice versa. You can't "remember" the future. You don't "remind" yourself of what will come to pass by pretending it already has come to pass.

So this is now the circa the 11th time you've disdained Gen 2:1-3, which is plain enough. You clearly reject it.

You're engaged in re-writing the bible.  What I just don't get is your motivation       

Well they do say God is outside time as we know it so when he wrote Genesis it was a done deal everything he said would come to pass according to his will the last thing created was man in his image which is Jesus Christ as stated in scripture.
I have not rewritten the bible I have just understood it from a different angle I believe God has created heaven and earth and everything in them and he will have created man in his image with the second comming of Christ which will take 6 days.

Quote
   I just don't get why you think Christ is not already united with his church. Is this a personal thing? I could credit it (Col 2:19       

Because his body the church is either asleep or are those still alive waiting to be translated at his comming.
Christ will come for his bride and they will become one if they were already joined he would have no need to come and claim her.

Quote
     The trouble is that you don't just quote "what the bible says" but you are always re-interpreting it and re-phrasing it and re-wording it.

I have never come across anyone so devoted to their own opinions as you. It's not a good omen 

I only interpret the scriptures as they speak to me personally if you have better interpretation please give them.
If you wish to see someone devoted to his opinions look in the mirror.

Quote
    You can't affirm something from a vacuum. You can't say he didn't have servants when the bible never says so.

On the balance of probability, as Noah was a potentate and built a huge ark, we can assume he had servants, just like all the others         

When you assume things you add to scripture thats why we have over 600 denominations lets just stick to what it says.

Quote
     I take Gen 2:1-3 into account. You clearly don't. The bible is my authority. I don't project Genesis into the future. If you think that is a natural thing to do, I feel really sorry for you. Sometimes I think I come to a house of delirium, talking to someone who owns no church, who rejects authority and "does what he wills.     

Avoiding the question again how do you interpret the creation accounts in Genesis simple question.

Quote
      I don't think you get the point that Christianity is not a solo endeavour. I reject your teaching, your method, and your pretensions in rejecting centuries of wholesome biblical exegesis for the sake of your own wild west theories       

But I do believe That God has created man in his image and it takes 6 days isn't this what has been taught over the centuries I believe exactly what the bible says and the bible says.

   Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high       

Christ is the express image of God the Father and as such he will be  man in the image of God when united with his bride.

Quote
  Are you doing harm or good in pretending that Genesis refers to a future event? Sounds like sci-fi to me. The fact is that you denigrate man by saying that he is not in the image of God. That is a very serious issue               

I am not pretending anything I am only saying in my humble opinion that the creation account in Genesis is the history of mankind from in the beginning to the end of Revelations.

Love and Peace
Dave

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #210 on: June 02, 2021, 12:38:33 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply

I think these verses support what I have said they say absolutely nothing about going to school or receiving a human education more likely he got his wisdom from God the Father and how could Christ say the following

    49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business     

If he was only reliant on the words of man who had got gods words wrong.
I never said that Christ was "only" reliant on the words of men. That is typically faux line of argumentation against those who emphasize Christ's humanity, by those who pretend to a superior gnosis as to his divinity. His divinity was expressed by his unity with the Holy Spirit. It didn't mean to say he didn't have to engage in normal human activities.

It is quite clear, reading from the gospels, that Christ had to learn the scriptures just the same as everyone else. He was as Heb 2 says, an ordinary man.

Act 2:22 "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:"

Well they do say God is outside time as we know it so when he wrote Genesis it was a done deal everything he said would come to pass according to his will the last thing created was man in his image which is Jesus Christ as stated in scripture.
I have not rewritten the bible I have just understood it from a different angle I believe God has created heaven and earth and everything in them and he will have created man in his image with the second comming of Christ which will take 6 days.
You are re-writing the bible because it is in regard to this earth and its timeframe that scripture says God has already entered into his rest Gen 2:1-3 and that the sixth day has been superseded by the seventh. All "days" are in respect of things going on in relation to the earth.

Even if God is outside of time, God never tries to pretend things in the future are in the past. God could never do such a thing, as he is a God of truth. You make God out to be a liar by disregarding the verb tenses in Gen 2:1-3. That game is the work of men, and shows that you are unable to reconcile yourself to the words of scripture.

Because his body the church is either asleep or are those still alive waiting to be translated at his comming.
Christ will come for his bride and they will become one if they were already joined he would have no need to come and claim her.
Easily rebutted, because if that were so, a husband and wife would become unjoined wherever they were apart, which isn't true.  Moreover  TO GOD, ALL ARE ALIVE. Isaiah 26:6-9, Revelation 21:1-6a (John 11:32-44)

2 Tim 2:19 "The Lord knows who his people are."

If they are united his in this life, they remain his forever.

I only interpret the scriptures as they speak to me personally if you have better interpretation please give them.
If you wish to see someone devoted to his opinions look in the mirror.
I am not devoted to my own opinions. I am open to being taught by anyone with knowledge and who speaks coherently and doesn't bend the rules of logic.

You however refuse to acknowledge that anyone has a better opinion than you and go in for all kinds of curious re-arrangement of bible verses to suit your own personal theories which are clearly inflexible to the point of idolatry in your case. Note that such is an inherently dangerous activity, for as with the Pharisees who attempted it and got it wildly wrong, where they then ended up condemning what was true and accepting error (called by Jesus "blind guides") it can lead inexhorably to one's own damnation in the end.

It is also deeply suspicious that you reject the knowledge of the original languages as advantageous in any way. There is something spiritually troubling in that: it shows you aren't so much interested in what the words of the bible say, as in using the bible, or one version of it, to support your pet doctrines.

I have already made clear why I reject your teaching: it involves re-arranging bible verses from disparate books, out of context, and even out of time. It also involves outright denial of what the bible says, i.e. that "man is in the image of God" in Genesis, which you refuse to accept, putting a gloss on it that it only infers Christ, which is simply not true. You refuse to accept 1 Cor 11:7 for what it says. You refuse to accept the need for women's headcoverings. You don't even seem to be able to accept that Christ is united with his church.

I just don't credit the way you go about interpreting scripture.

When you assume things you add to scripture thats why we have over 600 denominations lets just stick to what it says.
Yes, and you've assumed a license to re-arrange all the verses in scripture to conform with your own theory. so that makes 601.

Avoiding the question again how do you interpret the creation accounts in Genesis simple question.
I've already made clear it is a linear story. God's seventh day, which is from when the bible really starts, is the day of salvation.  The first 6 days are just the introduction. The rest of the bible is all about the seventh day and God's salvation of man, from Adam to Christ. And Adam was in the image of God, but men sinned. That is why he needed to be reclaimed by Christ. Just because Christ is the facsimile of God doesn't mean that Adam and by inference all men who came after him,  weren't originally made in the image of God, even if their own sin destroyed that image.

But I do believe That God has created man in his image and it takes 6 days isn't this what has been taught over the centuries I believe exactly what the bible says and the bible says.

   Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high       

Christ is the express image of God the Father and as such he will be  man in the image of God when united with his bride.

I am not pretending anything I am only saying in my humble opinion that the creation account in Genesis is the history of mankind from in the beginning to the end of Revelations.
And it is your interpretation that is shared by no-one else, not the gospels, not the apostles and not by anyone else (to my knowledge) except you and whatever adherents you claim. This is because of Gen 2:1-3, which is obvious enough, and obvious enough that Genesis doesn't project to Revelation, except by prophecy.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #211 on: June 02, 2021, 01:10:25 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply going round in circles again as far as I'm concerned the bible never states that Christ went to school of any kind to say different is adding to scripture.

As for Gen 2:1-3 I believe every word and there's no doubt in my mind that God will accomplish every thing he says.
As for his Sabbath rest our Lord makes it quite clear that he and the Father had been working up to the time of our Lords first advent so this can only mean that God's sabbath rest is a future event and Paul tells us we can enter that rest.
If God rest was thousands of years ago it would mean we would have to go back in time to enter.

Quote
    Easily rebutted, because if that were so, a husband and wife would become unjoined wherever they were apart, which isn't true.  Moreover  TO GOD, ALL ARE ALIVE. Isaiah 26:6-9, Revelation 21:1-6a (John 11:32-44)

2 Tim 2:19 "The Lord knows who his people are."

If they are united his in this life, they remain his forever.         

Christ will come for his bride a bride is not a wife until she is married to her husband and this is why our Lord will return to claim her.

    10  And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

 11  Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven 

  2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also   


These verses make it absolutely plain that Christ shall return here to earth to claim his bride and they shall become one and they will rule here on earth for 1000 years.

Quote
     I just don't credit the way you go about interpreting scripture       

You don't have to I have said many times nobody needs to believe anything I say I believe its how Gods word speaks to me if someone else gives me a better explanation I am quite willing to change my mind up to the present time nobody has so I shall stick to what I have till something better comes along.
I'm still waiting to find out what you believe all you seam to do is pick holes in what everyone says.

Quote
     Yes, and you've assumed a license to re-arrange all the verses in scripture to conform with your own theory. so that makes 601       

I have not rearranged anything the only thing I have done is apply the creation account in Genesis to the history of mankind from the beginning of creation to the end of that history which is Christ united to his bride which is man in the image of God.

Jesus Christ is the last Adam and as such he is man in the image of God
And would be created in the same way as the first Adam before the flood.
After the flood God creates Israel this is Gods son in the flesh who must come first then comes the last Adam Jesus Christ the man of spirit.

 Love and Peace
Dave

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #212 on: June 02, 2021, 09:52:08 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply going round in circles again as far as I'm concerned the bible never states that Christ went to school of any kind to say different is adding to scripture.
The bible never states that Christ didn't go school or that he received an education any different from any other Jewish child, except that he chose to spend time in the temple.

To insinuate the contrary is adding to scripture, and to insinuate that a human education wasn't necessary for Christ is to add to scripture.

As for Gen 2:1-3 I believe every word....
No you don't because you don't believe that the 6th day ended and 7th day happened.

... and there's no doubt in my mind that God will accomplish every thing he says.

as for his Sabbath rest our Lord makes it quite clear that he and the Father had been working up to the time of our Lords first advent so this can only mean that God's sabbath rest is a future event and Paul tells us we can enter that rest.
If God rest was thousands of years ago it would mean we would have to go back in time to enter.
Non-sequitur in every sense.

Jesus makes it perfectly clear that salvation is a fitting work for the Sabbath.

 Luk 13:14 "And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day."

Luk 13:15 "The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?"

Luk 13:16 "And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?"

Luk 13:17 "And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him."

So you deny the right of God, and Jesus, to save on the Sabbath? Sounds like you empathize with the ruler of the synagogue.

God's rest continues till the second coming of Christ. No need to go back in time.

Christ will come for his bride a bride is not a wife until she is married to her husband and this is why our Lord will return to claim her.
I dispute everything you say. Gen 2:24 suggests that the woman becomes the wife before the two become one in flesh.

Also consider that one betrothes a "wife". So as long as a person is betrothed he has a wife. Thus your statement that "a bride is not a wife until she is married to her husband" has no biblical sanction.

Deu 20:7 "And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her? let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man take her."

    10  And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

 11  Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven 

  2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also   


These verses make it absolutely plain that Christ shall return here to earth to claim his bride and they shall become one and they will rule here on earth for 1000 years.
First these verses say nothing about Christ and his bride ruling on earth for 1000 years. Rather the exact contrary. For God's "house" is in heaven.

1Ti 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen"

Acts 7:49. ??Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
    Or where will my resting place be?
Has not my hand made all these things"

Whoever said the house of God was on earth? That is a purely Old Covenant concept, and related only to the angel of God. It was removed by the second covenant, to be replaced by the New Jerusalem, the heavenly city which will not come down to this earth, ever, even if it is seen coming down to earth. For there is nothing in scripture to say that it will ever be found on old earth.

You don't have to I have said many times nobody needs to believe anything I say I believe its how Gods word speaks to me if someone else gives me a better explanation I am quite willing to change my mind up to the present time nobody has so I shall stick to what I have till something better comes along.
I don't believe a word of it, as you are incapable of seeing the logical errors in your theories just because you are willing to tolerate any amount of logical perversity, such as pretending that the New Jerusalem comes down to this (old) earth, and pretending that the seventh day hasn't yet happened. Even what you said above about "These verses make it absolutely plain" shows you as reading things into scripture which it  never says.

You look for a heaven on earth, which is JW (or cultic) to the core. Millennialism/Millenarianism is inherently cultic, i.e. believed in by cults. I just don't know which one you belong to.

Verily you are lost in your own theories, to which you are far more devoted than the bible.

I'm still waiting to find out what you believe all you seam to do is pick holes in what everyone says.
I like playing the lawyer. I like discovering things, justified by Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings."

I have made it plain my doctrine is fairly mainstream, along classical presbyterian lines, although I reject high trinitarianism (I.e. which lays down the principle that Jesus is "God the Son") which puts me at odds with quite a few of the high churches. I also reject millennialism and pacifism as cultic doctrines.

However I reject many current presbyterian churches, excluding free presbyterians, as apostate in doctrine.

I have not rearranged anything the only thing I have done is apply the creation account in Genesis to the history of mankind from the beginning of creation to the end of that history which is Christ united to his bride which is man in the image of God.
You have also transposed the idea of heaven into the millennium (on earth), which has no biblical warrant of authority. You embrace pacifism which also has no warrant of authority. None of the apostles criticized the Roman soldiers for being soliders. You don't concede that Christ is united with his church, ascribing it to some future event.

Beware: there are many Millenarian Movements that are by no means Christian.

Jesus Christ is the last Adam and as such he is man in the image of God
He was the begotten facsimile of  God.

And would be created in the same way as the first Adam before the flood.
So he needed a human education.

After the flood God creates Israel this is Gods son in the flesh who must come first then comes the last Adam Jesus Christ the man of spirit.
Didn't the prophets have God's spirit too?

Wasn't Adam the son of God (Luke 3:37)?

When you talk about son in the flesh you mean adopted son.

No mention from you of Jesus being the natural "son" and his being the sin offering?



Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #213 on: June 03, 2021, 12:54:18 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply

Quote
  The bible never states that Christ didn't go school or that he received an education any different from any other Jewish child, except that he chose to spend time in the temple.

To insinuate the contrary is adding to scripture, and to insinuate that a human education wasn't necessary for Christ is to add to scripture     

Ok give me one verse that says Christ went to school.

Quote
       As for Gen 2:1-3 I believe every word....

No you don't because you don't believe that the 6th day ended and 7th day happened     

Of course I believe we are towards the end of the 6th day and the 7th day is just around the corner.

Quote
   Jesus makes it perfectly clear that salvation is a fitting work for the Sabbath     

As I've been saying Christs 1000 year reign is the Fathers sabbath rest but Christ will be working through it to put all his enemies under his feet and to make all things perfect before he hands everything back to the Father.

Quote
    God's rest continues till the second coming of Christ. No need to go back in time   

Then how do you account for this.

    Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work       

So if the Father and Son were working at the time of his first advent how could the Father be resting.

Quote
     I dispute everything you say. Gen 2:24 suggests that the woman becomes the wife before the two become one in flesh       

        24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh       

If we apply this to Christ and his bride his father and mother is Israel the time between the man and woman coming together is not given so I say it would be two days 1000 years long.

Quote
     First these verses say nothing about Christ and his bride ruling on earth for 1000 years. Rather the exact contrary. For God's "house" is in heaven     

I know but what they do show is that Christ will return to earth which you deny other scriptures say that Christ will reign for a thousand years and I say this will be from the new Jerusalem

    Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. View more

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband         


Take note the new Jerusalem is prepared as a bride for her husband of course is Christ and when christ and his bride come to gather we will have man in the image of God the end of creation.

Quote
  Didn't the prophets have God's spirit too?

   I believe the Holy spirit spoke through them         

Wasn't Adam the son of God (Luke 3:37)?

   yes he was         

When you talk about son in the flesh you mean adopted son     

no I mean created son                  

Love and Peace
Dave

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #214 on: June 04, 2021, 12:02:41 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply

Ok give me one verse that says Christ went to school.
I have already given it: Heb 2:17 "For this reason he had to be made like them,[fn] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people."

If he was fully human, he needed to go to school, otherwise he would have been ignorant of the scriptures. There is nothing in scripture about the Holy Spirit supplanting the need for basic human education, except in one respect only, i.e. the ability to speak in foreign tongues. Yet that is not anything that we are told that Jesus practised when  discoursing with those around him.

The essential point to note is that Jesus "grew in knowledge" just like any other human being Luk 2:52.

Of course I believe we are towards the end of the 6th day and the 7th day is just around the corner.
It's not what Gen 2:1-3 says at all. You've re-written it to suit yourself.

As I've been saying Christs 1000 year reign is the Fathers sabbath rest but Christ will be working through it to put all his enemies under his feet and to make all things perfect before he hands everything back to the Father.
It's not what the bible says. Your conclusion derives from you amalgamating disparate verses in different books to create a new theology based on Revelation, which contains no theology, being just a simple prophecy ("what must come to pass" Rev 1:19).

How do we know you're not engaging in this activity? 2Pe 3:16 "..... ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

You're seeking to author a new theology.

Then how do you account for this.

    Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work       

So if the Father and Son were working at the time of his first advent how could the Father be resting.
Because it's only certain types of work (i,e, regular work) that is prohibited on the Sabbath. As Jesus shows, salvation work is allowed, because it's (a) needed, (b) good.

        24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh       

If we apply this to Christ and his bride his father and mother is Israel the time between the man and woman coming together is not given so I say it would be two days 1000 years long.
You are obsessed with taking the metaphor of a physical husband and wife to an extremity that the metaphor doesn't bear. There is no "one in flesh" union, of Christ and his church, because it is a spiritual union, and that union exists from when a believer is born again (bethrothed to Christ). There is a (metaphorical) wedding feast, but it is in heaven. Do you concede the necessity to be born again in the spirit?

I know but what they do show is that Christ will return to earth which you deny other scriptures say that Christ will reign for a thousand years and I say this will be from the new Jerusalem
I don't deny he will return. I dispute the purpose of his returning. As Heb 9:28 "so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."

So it won't be on account of sin that he will return. But you say it will be on account of sin, because the purpose of Christ's reign will be to defeat sin on earth.

Again 1Th 4:17 "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever"

It's very clear that when he reappears, he won't actually be setting foot on earth again, but collecting the saved "in the air."

And he certainly won't be returning to free anyone or save anyone from sin.

    Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. View more

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband         


Take note the new Jerusalem is prepared as a bride for her husband of course is Christ and when christ and his bride come to gather we will have man in the image of God the end of creation.
I'm sorry, but your teaching is heretical. It is in this life that man is required to (re-)attain the image of God. It is not anything that is put off to the second coming.
 
Mar 10:15 "Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

Luk 13:24 "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to."

Mat 5:20 "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #215 on: June 04, 2021, 01:43:43 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply if Christ went to school or not dose not matter all I'm saying is it is not in the bible so I assume we don't need to know so we can drop this silly argument.

Quote
     It's not what Gen 2:1-3 says at all. You've re-written it to suit yourself   

As for the whole of the creation account in Genesis everything it says was created before the flood and I believe every word of it I also believe that God destroyed this creation in the flood this included the first Adam.
After the flood God began a new creation of a new Adam which would be Israel everything else was on the ark it was only man in his image that was missing.

Christ will reign for a 1000 years as stated in the bible you can be absolutely certain of it.

Quote
     How do we know you're not engaging in this activity? 2Pe 3:16 "..... ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction   

How do you know your not.

Quote
  Then how do you account for this.

    Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work       

So if the Father and Son were working at the time of his first advent how could the Father be resting.
Because it's only certain types of work (i,e, regular work) that is prohibited on the Sabbath. As Jesus shows, salvation work is allowed, because it's (a) needed, (b) good.       

You said the Father was resting which contradicts the above verse.

Quote
   You are obsessed with taking the metaphor of a physical husband and wife to an extremity that the metaphor doesn't bear. There is no "one in flesh" union, of Christ and his church, because it is a spiritual union, and that union exists from when a believer is born again (bethrothed to Christ). There is a (metaphorical) wedding feast, but it is in heaven. Do you concede the necessity to be born again in the spirit         

The same laws apply to the physical and the spiritual that the believer is born into the body of Christ goes without saying and Christ and his body will be united at his second comming.
Then they will reign for a thousand years

Quote
      I don't deny he will return. I dispute the purpose of his returning. As Heb 9:28 "so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.   

You have denied through this entire discussion that Christ will not return to earth but will reign from heaven which is contrary to what the bible teaches.

Quote
      Again 1Th 4:17 "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever"

It's very clear that when he reappears, he won't actually be setting foot on earth again, but collecting the saved "in the air         

At the transfiguration when those who are alive recieve their spiritual bodies and join those who have died and been resurrected then the new Jerusalem will be formed and will com down to earth with Christ at its head and reign here on earth for a thousand year.

Quote
I'm sorry, but your teaching is heretical. It is in this life that man is required to (re-)attain the image of God. It is not anything that is put off to the second coming               

Prove this statement from scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave

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