Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 13309 times)

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Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #168 on: May 11, 2021, 07:51:26 AM »

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If as you say universalists want everyone to be saved then they are obeying our Lords command to love friends and foe alike.
I don't say that. Universalists dogmatize that all will be saved, period. There is a difference between wanting and dogmatizing on what will happen, and in devoting your life to doctrines under which it willl happen. If God is uncharitable enough for not saving all, then your real target of objection is God himself. Your real objection is to Christianity, which does not teach universal salvation. Christianity is not to be confused with socialism or communism, which emerged out of atheism as false religions in the 19th century, excepting in one sense only: in so far as either improves the lot of Christians and the gospel, it is a good thing, but pursued for its own ends, history shows that such promotes atheism more than it promotes the gospel and has caused wickedness to abound, as indeed do false doctrines equally that provide a false sense of security in religion.

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #169 on: May 11, 2021, 08:50:16 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply so how would you interpret this verse.

    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance       

So God wants no one to perish so do you think God will get what he wants.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #170 on: May 11, 2021, 09:54:54 AM »
So God wants no one to perish so do you think God will get what he wants.
This devolves down to the conversation I was having with strobe concerning the different jurisdictions of heaven and earth, as the Lord's prayer makes clear. What God desires on earth where God's will is not always done is by no means what is divinely appointed to happen from the perspective of heaven. You always have to ascertain which jurisdiction God is speaking of, when he speaks. God's "desires" always relate to earth, and to the conduct of men on earth, but God's prophecies generally reflect the will of heaven.

Rom 9:27 "Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved. 28For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively.""

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #171 on: May 11, 2021, 11:17:07 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply as for

    Rom 9:27 "Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved. 28For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively     

I think this is referring to the destruction of Israel by the Romans in 70AD Israel as a nation died but a remnant was saved all the prophets and those who God had chosen some who had obeyed the law.

Then we have

     Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob       

The Deliverer is Christ and Israel is back as a nation a type of resurrection and all Israel will be saved so the verse I quoted

       2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance       

Encompasses all this and more.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #172 on: May 11, 2021, 02:23:00 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply as for

    Rom 9:27 "Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved. 28For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively     

I think this is referring to the destruction of Israel by the Romans in 70AD Israel as a nation died but a remnant was saved all the prophets and those who God had chosen some who had obeyed the law.
I disagree. It was only those Jews in Jerusalem whom were largely wiped out in the AD 70 event. There were many other non-believing Jews scattered over Israel, and the wars of the unbelieving Jews continued on for another 65 years until AD 135.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars

Then we have

     Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob       
This refers to Israel as properly encapsulating those with faith, including the church, being only the true people of God.

The Deliverer is Christ and Israel is back as a nation a type of resurrection and all Israel will be saved so the verse I quoted
No. Propertic Israel is the community of believers alone, as Paul makes clear in Rom 9:6


       2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance       

Encompasses all this and more.
Indeed. That is why the world continues, to bring in the full number of the redeemed, which will be very large.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #173 on: May 11, 2021, 05:31:25 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for you post But I was not referring to the people but to the nation of Israel it was nation that died at the hands of the Romans and ceased to exist until 1948 although there were many Jews still in the world they had no homeland.
but there were many in Israel who were saved the patriarchs the prophets all those Chosen by God these are the remnant that was saved out of Israel.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #174 on: May 11, 2021, 05:39:33 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for you post But I was not referring to the people but to the nation of Israel it was nation that died at the hands of the Romans and ceased to exist until 1948 although there were many Jews still in the world they had no homeland.
but there were many in Israel who were saved the patriarchs the prophets all those Chosen by God these are the remnant that was saved out of Israel.
The nation of Israel died with the Old Covenant. It is an Old Covenant creation based on Old Jerusalem as the seat of God's worship. Citizenship now is of the New Jerusalem in heaven. Only the people of Israel survive, wherever they may be, whether naturally descended or whether grafted. Only dispensationalists are concerned with the nation of Israel. It's not a theology I subscribe to.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #175 on: May 14, 2021, 12:28:37 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your post how do you interpret these verses

    Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. View more

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband           


The new Jerusalem comes down from heaven to earth with christ as its head and from here Christ with his bride will rule the world for 1000 years without any interference from satan.

Love and Peace
Dave

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