Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 4320 times)

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Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2021, 04:11:28 PM »

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Here God goes against human will and demonic will and in the scriptures  releases the captive / His people from bondage of and from  the  egyptians.

God still does that today - with or within your will or your will allowing it [as He does not depemt on your will or what you want to believe]

These same captives now being free may well come under new attack [as the spiritual does not stop living] and coming up against us..

Therefore Israel came into "spiritual bondage" [Babylonian Exile] a mixer of human temptation and spiritual attack..



I really can't see how you can evaulate / Murder,kill,destroy/ under the same banner from a Spiritual perspective..

You can only see it under a flag of human and the ten commandments as you have here/ but not sure whether God meant it - this way ..

Youi are simply looking at an intellectual level [maybe not living it]



Many Israelites were in slavery for many years [with no will of their own] and meanwhile the  Egyptians were worshipping other god's...

Talk about death and destruction under other humans - worshipping other god's...

-

In the same way huge numbers of Jews were killed under hitlers  power..



It is not so much "who does it" - I am sure there must be a difference beteeen these scritures when interpretating  [Murder,kill,destroy]
I'm finding it very hard to assess your responses as I don't know which texts they are a reply to. Please try and use the quote function more.

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Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2021, 04:18:40 PM »

The reason I chose John 10:10  The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


Is because there is a difference between human affect and Spiritual ...

The context  is comparing human against / Spiritual / ..

Here you have the Good Shepherd Guarding [The Guardian] and then you have the Three opponents in this argument...

1. People [who at that time who were  their own god's  [that came up against Him.] these are the people that took Jesus to the Cross and still do today.. [these were and are still today the people who kill detroy the futures of and dedroy the faith of]

2. It's about leaders .. they are the role models - here the role models were the pharisees and the sadducees [the political players of that time]  who sent many to death

3. You must except that there are no parables/ etc / to replicate satan / satan is only replicating God and trying to replicate His Character..

Furthermore - satan is not God - the only thing he creates is discord and disharmony..

satan is completely against  family and church..
I concur Satan has no power to deceive the true believer, as he is bound in the abyss. Rev 20:1,2

The reason I chose John 10:10   is because we are wrestling between what is spiritual of spiritual origin  and human and what is is of powers beyond our capability / capacity / during these events in human life  and living - we must evaluate the three and work out which one - is at work . and working against us/you/me.

just look out for family affecting you - look out for spirtual affecting them and look out for other things / I mean you only have to look at Corona Virus - to look at the modern attempts - to mess us up..

Whether you decoide this is sipiritual or human or just scientific is up to you



I suggest you relook at John 10:10  The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly

The thief can be peopke/family/or your neigbour / ATT It was the pharises or the sadducees / those who had the most influence / over you..
I concur with your last point: Matt 10:36.  I concur that "leaders" are always inherently dangerous, especially in non-Christians societies, as they are likely to be worshippers of satan.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2021, 04:19:55 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
This is patently untrue. When first approaching the promised land, they saw the promised land was filled with giants and many others.       

Very true but what dose God say

      3  The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said       

He said he would destroy the nations before them there was no need to fight but later when they disobeyed God they had to fight.

Quote
That would be to give Christian doctrine over to untrammelled heresy and disobey the bible

Jde 1:3 "Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God?s holy people."

Defending the faith isn't about maintaining the right of all men to label themselves as "Christians."     

And this is why we need to get back to basics and get back to what the scriptures say not what men say it says  and not changing words every 5 minutes to suit ones doctoring or theology for this we need a bible we can rely on and I believe the KJV was inspired by God and as such can be relied on for the truth.

The rest of you post is about should we kill those who would kill us is killing another human being lawful in Gods eyes I don't think so its perfectly lawful in mans eye's but I do not think God will approve all the laws he has given us is to show our love for him and for each other the whole of scripture is about LOVE and when we Love it is not possible to kill someone else I believe that the end of Gods creation will be everyone who is left on earth at the end of this creation will be loving God and each other there will be no need for armies and police love is the answer to all our problems GOD IS LOVE.

Evil begets evil we should do our best to show the world a better way which is LOVE

Love and Peace
Dave   


Earthman

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2021, 12:55:55 AM »

I concur Satan has no power to deceive the true believer, as he is bound in the abyss. Rev 20:1,2
I concur with your last point: Matt 10:36.  I concur that "leaders" are always inherently dangerous, especially in non-Christians societies, as they are likely to be worshippers of satan.


?//?

Quote
I concur with your last point: Matt 10:36.  I concur that "leaders" are always inherently dangerous, especially in non-Christians societies, as they are likely to be worshippers of satan.
  ???

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2021, 05:42:00 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Very true but what dose God say

      3  The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said       

He said he would destroy the nations before them there was no need to fight but later when they disobeyed God they had to fight.
Non sequitur again. Just because God says he will do something doesn't infer no need for action on the part of believers. That is heresy. As Peter says 2 Pet 1: 10 "Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure."

You don't get anything by sitting back and doing nothing and by saying "God's done all the work" or "he would have done the work" or "he will do the work." Work is incumbent on believers.

You're making it up.  Nowhere does God say that the Israelites had to fight their battles due to their "disobedience." In any event the disobedient ones had all died. So what you're saying is defamatory of those who weren't disobedient.

You're making up doctrines as you go along.

And this is why we need to get back to basics and get back to what the scriptures say not what men say it says  and not changing words every 5 minutes to suit ones doctoring or theology for this we need a bible we can rely on and I believe the KJV was inspired by God and as such can be relied on for the truth.
No where in the bible does it say that the KJV was "inspired." In point of fact it was based on other English versions that predated it and were already in widespread use and continued in widespread use.

The rest of you post is about should we kill those who would kill us is killing another human being lawful in Gods eyes I don't think so its perfectly lawful in mans eye's but I do not think God will approve all the laws he has given us is to show our love for him and for each other the whole of scripture is about LOVE and when we Love it is not possible to kill someone else I believe that the end of Gods creation will be everyone who is left on earth at the end of this creation will be loving God and each other there will be no need for armies and police love is the answer to all our problems GOD IS LOVE.
If it weren't for men killing other men, the entire world would be Islamified by now including the UK. It was only becaus our forefather fought battles and destroyed the Islamic invaders of Europe that a few  ratain our Christian religion.

So I reject gnostic theories and beliefs. Luke 18:8 "But when the Son of man comes, shall he indeed find faith on the earth?"

Evil begets evil we should do our best to show the world a better way which is LOVE
You disagree with the apostle then 1 Tim1:9 "We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching?"

You reject the law of God, for there is no law where there is no enforcement of it. You're not even teaching Christianity but pacifism, which is communism.

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2021, 05:44:32 AM »

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2021, 01:51:35 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your post you said

Quote
   Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Very true but what dose God say

      3  The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said       

He said he would destroy the nations before them there was no need to fight but later when they disobeyed God they had to fight.


Non sequitur again. Just because God says he will do something doesn't infer no need for action on the part of believers. That is heresy. As Peter says 2 Pet 1: 10 "Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure           

So are you saying God is telling the lies when he said he would destroy the nations before them.

Quote
        You don't get anything by sitting back and doing nothing and by saying "God's done all the work" or "he would have done the work" or "he will do the work." Work is incumbent on believers     

So are you saying we should go out killing people who don't believe as we do yes we should but we should use the two edged sword which is the word of God or are you saying we should use a sub machine gun.

Quote
     No where in the bible does it say that the KJV was "inspired." In point of fact it was based on other English versions that predated it and were already in widespread use and continued in widespread use         

I never said it was what I said was I believed it to be so

Quote
     If it weren't for men killing other men, the entire world would be Islamified by now including the UK. It was only becaus our forefather fought battles and destroyed the Islamic invaders of Europe that a few  ratain our Christian religion.

So I reject gnostic theories and beliefs. Luke 18:8 "But when the Son of man comes, shall he indeed find faith on the earth?"         

All killing is against the laws of love given by our Lord you can't love someone then go and blow his head of.
All killing is wrong

Quote
     You reject the law of God, for there is no law where there is no enforcement of it. You're not even teaching Christianity but pacifism, which is communism                   

So what are the laws

        And he said to him, ?You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.  This is the great and first commandment.  And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.  On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.?
Matthew 22:37-‬40 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.22.37-40.ESV

   But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.  For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?  And if you greet only your brothers,  what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?  You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 5:44-‬48 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.5.44-48.ESV   


So are you saying we should ignore these words from our lord that we should kill our enemies and not love them as commanded.

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.22.37-40.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.5.44-48.ESV

Earthman

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2021, 09:11:22 PM »
Sorry for making it difficult for you, normally my Grandson is on here [playing roblox] this wil be the first free evening ..

Usually I am bouncing between different things [like a tennis ball] and have a few minutes to speed read and type AFAP..   ;)

Not disagreeing with anyone ...


I am simply getting at the differences between the powers regarding "kiiling- Destroy"  [words are great things - but relay so little]

Hence the use of pictures/metaphors/symbols/ in God's Word..

When used in regard to  God [He is the good Shepherd ] - Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able
to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Regarding satan and demons [they are already judged as per  - Then He [God] will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41).


Regarding human activity [all depends on who and what they are intertwined to or if they are]

One person might be their own god/ another revolving around God / another being twined in with demonic stuff.

As Paul said Romans 7:15-20 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And
if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin
 living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to
do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do?this I
keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


So refering to the words "kill/destroy" you know people can destroy using words or build up using words..

"Sticks and stones may break my bones - but words will never hurt me"  silly saying..


Woo - finally got to post with  some free time whoop..   cheer:



Quote
I concur Satan has no power to deceive the true believer, as he is bound in the abyss. Rev 20:1,2

Depends when he was bound in History = His - Story - how can you know satan is not allowed [NOW] and sometime in the future [BOUND] - you do not.. know..



Quote
I concur with your last point: Matt 10:36.  I concur that "leaders" are always inherently dangerous, especially in non-Christians societies, as they are likely to be worshippers of satan.

I find that a very dangerous and reaction to the word "Leaders"! [I never mentioned Christian..]

Why would -  Boris Johnson be a woshipper of satan ?

What a strange response ?

You are relating "leaders" to "Christian"  ...why ? .. I never mentioned Christian - I said "Spiritual]


Relating people worshipping  satan ?   how can they [as he is now bound up in an abyss]

Why would they want to be bound with him into eternal torment / sorry but does'nt make sense.

Anyway whoo - I got a night off..



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