Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 6583 times)

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Online eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #144 on: April 29, 2021, 07:23:22 PM »

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply I don't  understand why you ignore all the scriptures I have given you here's one more.

    4  And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 5  And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee       


As far as I know this prophecy has not bean fulfilled to date so the Lord setting his feet on the mount of Olives is a future event so Christ will return to earth.
A comparison with Isaiah 40:3-4 suggests that you have misinterpreted it. The language of prophecy is sometimes figurative. The moving and splitting of mountains is clearly idiomatic in Isaiah: i.e. one interpretation might be that by the cleaving of the mount of Olives in the midst, toward the east and toward the west, so as to make a very great valley, is meant the removing of the ceremonial law, which was like an aspiring mountain, or partition wall, between the Jews and Gentiles,

Per Joseph Benson "That by the valley of the mountains, is meant the gospel church, to which, as a place of refuge, many of the Jews should flee, as people fled formerly from before the earthquake here mentioned, and should hasten into it together with the Gentiles. 4th, That by this valley reaching to Azal, or, to the separate place, as the word signifies, is signified that the privileges of the church should not be limited, as formerly, to any particular nation, or people, but should be extended to all those who, in obedience to the call of God, should come out from the world, separate themselves from sinners, devote themselves to God, and become his peculiar people. And, 5th, That by the Lord?s coming, and all his saints with him, is signified the spiritual coming and extension of his kingdom, whereby a multitude of converts, both of Jewish and Gentile extraction, should be made, who, through faith working by love, should become saints, or holy persons. This, in substance, seems to be Henry?s view of the passage, as it is that of many others."

Absolutely no evidence of any connection to a millennium, that's for sure.

Also the splitting of the mountain may just be figurative for the replacement of the Old Covenant. That's my preference anyway.

As for these wonderful verses you have quoted.

    Mat 25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Mat 25:32 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Mat 25:33 "And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

Mat 25:34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world         


What a wonderful description of the millenium Christs 1000 year reign here on earth.
This earth was created by God for man to live in and look after it is a beautiful and wonderful place all we need now is for the King of Kings to take his rightful place on the throne of his glory and to rule.

Just read these verses thought them relevant.
Fairy tale stuff. It's not talking about a millennial reign. You just invented it. Where does Gog and Magog figure in Matt 24?

     and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:39 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.24.39.ESV   

     Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Matthew 24:44 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.24.44.ESV             


So the question is if our Lord is coming where is he coming to if not planet earth
Of course to planet earth.
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.24.39.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.24.44.ESV

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #145 on: April 30, 2021, 11:45:10 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply the scripture I gave was in reply to your statement that Christ would not return to earth but remain in heaven the opening words of the verses I quoted is a statement of fact that his feet will stand on the mount of olives.

     
    4  And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives     


So as you can see our Lord shall stand on the earth and if we read a little further we find.


      17  And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain     

Whats the point of going up to Jerusalem to worship the King if he won't be there.

The amount of scriptural evidence is overwhelming you can choose to ignore it or change the words of scripture to suit your theology but none of that will alter the fact that Christ will reign here on earth for a thousand years as statement in scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave

Online eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #146 on: April 30, 2021, 08:01:56 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply the scripture I gave was in reply to your statement that Christ would not return to earth but remain in heaven the opening words of the verses I quoted is a statement of fact that his feet will stand on the mount of olives.
     
    4  And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives     


So as you can see our Lord shall stand on the earth and if we read a little further we find.
If we put ourselves in Zeccariah's position then Christ did indeed come to earth, and stand on the Mount of Olives. I can't understand why you wouldn't apply the prophecy to when Christ the man did come to earth?  That's the most obvious fulfillment and surely the best interpretation.

      17  And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain     

Whats the point of going up to Jerusalem to worship the King if he won't be there.
He was there in the Old Jerusalem and is now enthroned in the New Jerusalem. Again these are standard biblical concepts. Yet the reference is also to where Christ died, in Jerusalem, so this is an explicit reference to the place where Christ was to die also. So the passage is telling all men to look to the cross of Christ at Jerusalem.

The amount of scriptural evidence is overwhelming you can choose to ignore it or change the words of scripture to suit your theology but none of that will alter the fact that Christ will reign here on earth for a thousand years as statement in scripture.
I 've just interpreted the passages you gave according to their literal meaning without referring to the millennium. It's not just "my theology" but the theology of the most reputable biblical scholars of the last 500 years.

Now show me your authority for applying these passages to the millennium.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #147 on: May 01, 2021, 09:42:00 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply but I think you need to reread the scriptures give they are not about his first advent he did not come as a King but as a suffering servant he came in the first instance to save Israel it was only when Israel rejected him was salvation offered to the world and what do the scriptures say

    16  And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 17  And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain     


How on earth could all the families of the earth come and worship the King when they did not know he was there besides at that time he did not come as a king but as the suffering servant besides as I see it the whole of Zechariah 14 is a prophecy of his second comming.
Besides its only now when the gospel  has been preached to all nations can this prophecy be fulfilled.

Love and Peace
Dave

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #148 on: May 01, 2021, 10:39:22 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply but I think you need to reread the scriptures give they are not about his first advent he did not come as a King but as a suffering servant he came in the first instance to save Israel it was only when Israel rejected him was salvation offered to the world and what do the scriptures say

    16  And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 17  And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain     


How on earth could all the families of the earth come and worship the King when they did not know he was there besides at that time he did not come as a king but as the suffering servant besides as I see it the whole of Zechariah 14 is a prophecy of his second comming.
Besides its only now when the gospel  has been preached to all nations can this prophecy be fulfilled.
It's obvious that it cannot be referring to a literal fulfilment of going to Jerusalem because the sheer weight of numbers would never fit into Old Jerusalem. They would be crushed to death in the stampede.

This then is referring to the New Jerusalem, which I have also referred to. Contrast Rev 7:9 with the feast of Tabernacles. This is something that takes place in heaven. I might agree that the last section of verses in Zech 14 have an uncanny resemblance to the last verses in Revelation, but those verses in Revelation occur after the end of the 1000 years. There are two and a half chapters of Rev after the 1000 years. So no, I don't agree that there is any reference implied or express to any millennium here.


Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #149 on: May 02, 2021, 01:02:42 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
     It's obvious that it cannot be referring to a literal fulfilment of going to Jerusalem because the sheer weight of numbers would never fit into Old Jerusalem. They would be crushed to death in the stampede         

Your joking of course we are talking here of the new Jerusalem the body of Christ a spiritual body plus those going up have eternal life they cannot die plus time is not a factor they will have eternity.
They will have the bodies of angels which appear and disappear at will.

As for the New Jerusalem it comes down from Heaven

     Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband     

It comes down from heaven to earth

   Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God         

And the church is the tabernacle his body of which he is the Head and they will descend to planet earth and reign on earth for 1000 years.

     Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years       

Can't  argue with scripture

Love and Peace
Dave

Online eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #150 on: May 02, 2021, 01:26:40 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Your joking of course we are talking here of the new Jerusalem the body of Christ a spiritual body plus those going up have eternal life they cannot die plus time is not a factor they will have eternity.
They will have the bodies of angels which appear and disappear at will.
No, "you" were talking only about Old Jerusalem, for you were referring this passage to the millennium which predates the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven.

It was me who referred to the New Jerusalem


As for the New Jerusalem it comes down from Heaven

     Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband     

It comes down from heaven to earth

   Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God         

And the church is the tabernacle his body of which he is the Head and they will descend to planet earth and reign on earth for 1000 years.
Will they? And where do I find this in the bible. So now we've go the millennium (in Rev 20:1-6) being moved forward in time, till after the new heavens and new earth and new Jerusalem appear in Rev 21:1-2.

So in essence you're re-writing the bible.


     Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years       

Can't  argue with scripture
I can certainly argue with your re-arrangement of the verses and chapters in the bible to make it say something it never says in its original sequence. If this is to be allowed, I guess anyone can make the bible say whatever they want it to say. Moreover to limit New Jerusalem to 1000 years is also to say something the bible never says.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #151 on: May 03, 2021, 12:56:56 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply sorry if I have confused you will try to put it as simply as possible.

First comes the rapture when christ comes with all those who have died in him and all those who are still alive will be changed and join Christ in the air this is the marriage of Christ and his bride and they become one this is man in the image of God.
This is the start of the millenium then Christ and bride will come down to earth this is the new Jerusalem from which the king of Kings shall rule the world for a thousand years with his bride the church at the same time satan and all those who are his will be bound for 1000 years.
At the end of the 1000 years satan will be released for a short time the final test to see if all those who have come through the millennium can reject satan and choose God.
Christ will then hand all those who have come through the millennium back to God who will create a new heaven and earth what that will be we are not told.

Love and peace
Dave

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