Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 6582 times)

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Online eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #136 on: April 25, 2021, 04:26:29 PM »

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply  avoiding the question again with smoke and mirrors so I ask again on what scripture do you base your assumption that that the words a thousand years don't mean exactly what they say and I take it from your answer above you don't have one.
We have had this discussion before. I have quoted good authority: Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, "a thousand is not unfrequently put as a round number (e.g. Ps: 50:10 for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills)."

You don't however accept academic authority, as with you it is "of man."

So I say again with all the scriptures in the previous post to back me up that Christ will reign here on earth for 1000 years over all those who are resurrected in the first resurrection as stated in scripture which always override what man has to say.

The tree of life is Jesus Christ the true vine the tree of knowledge of good and evil is Israel and the law to be in the image of God we need that knowledge so that we can choose the good of our own free will which is to Love God and our neighbours and our enemies.
No, the "tree of life" is not Jesus Christ.

Christ compared himself to:

A vine  (John 15:1-8)
bread of life (John 6:35)
light of the world (John 9:5)

Rev 2:27 "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

It is clear that one must be in Christ and obtain the victory in Christ before one can eat of the tree of life. So the tree of life is something beyond Christ and separate from him: the reward for the victorious Christian.

Yes you are right my theology is very simple I have this very simplistic view that God loves us and wants us to know who he is what he has done what he is doing and what he will do in the future all through Jesus Christ.
A lot of people have that view. But a lot of people can't accept the simplicity of the message, and they seek to manipulate it to make it say something more; because despite the simplicity, they can't actually accept it because it is too simple.

Things Christ never taught are (a) a heaven on earth, (b) a millennium reign on earth, (c) reincarnation of the saints on earth, (d) peace on earth.

John 14:1-4 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you.  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.  You know the way to the place where I am going."

Nothing about a millennium here.

Scripture please to proove this besides heaven is where God and Christ are if they are on the earth then heaven will be here.
2Pe 3:7 (for the umpteenth time). Go figure: If there is to be a new earth, then heaven cannot be on the old earth, i.e. during the millennium.

Jhn 8:23  "But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.""

There is this world and another world. How can they be confounded?

Christ has been creating from the very beginning its through him and for him all things are created the millenium is a given fact as stated in Revelation and part of the creation process the end of creation is man in the image of God which is Jesus Christ at the end of his millennial reign.
So say you on No Authority.

"So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation" (Gen. 2:3).

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #137 on: April 26, 2021, 01:50:04 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply in all the verses I have given above  the word thousand is the same in each verse in strongs it says

   G5507
Original: χίλιοι

Transliteration: chilioi

Phonetic: khil'-ee-oy

Thayer Definition:

a thousand
Origin: plural of uncertain affinity

TDNT entry: 16:46,1

Part(s) of speech: Adjective

Strong's Definition: Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: - thousand       


For me it means exactly what it says Christ shall reign here on earth for a thousand years.

Quote
      No, the "tree of life" is not Jesus Christ         

What is it an apple tree maybe I don't think so I'm more inclined to believe our Lord is the true vine.

      1  I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

 2  Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

 3  Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

 4  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

 5  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing   


I see the vine as a type of tree.

Quote
     
Things Christ never taught are (a) a heaven on earth, (b) a millennium reign on earth, (c) reincarnation of the saints on earth, (d) peace on earth     

So everything taught by the prophets and apostles can be thrown out

Quote
      So say you on No Authority.     

My authority is the bible everything I say is based in scripture.

Quote
     So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation" (Gen. 2:3)     

So at what time in the history of the world as we know it could God possibly say everything was very good.
The only time The Father could say these words is at the end of the millenium the millennium is the Father's sabbath rest not forgetting what our Lord said.

     Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.     

So the Father and Son were still working when Jesus said these words can only mean the Father sabbath rest is a future event and I say its the millennium.

Love and Peace
Dave


Online eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #138 on: April 26, 2021, 08:26:53 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply in all the verses I have given above  the word thousand is the same in each verse in strongs it says

   G5507
Original: χίλιοι

Transliteration: chilioi

Phonetic: khil'-ee-oy

Thayer Definition:

a thousand
Origin: plural of uncertain affinity

TDNT entry: 16:46,1

Part(s) of speech: Adjective

Strong's Definition: Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: - thousand       


For me it means exactly what it says Christ shall reign here on earth for a thousand years.
Obviously your bible is a different bible to mine. Shame about that. All Rev symbolism comes from the Old Testament, so you have to find out the OT usage and what 1000 means in Hebrew.

I find it remarkable that you can be so adamant that 1000 means exactly 1000, but then you go and insert the words "on earth" in violation of Rev 22:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll."

So by your own standard of pedantry, your "reign on earth" theory falls flat on its face. Find me one passage in the entire bible where it says Christ reigns on earth. Anyway, it is pointless discussing this any longer. One with a mind as closed as yours isn't amenable to discussion.

What is it an apple tree maybe I don't think so I'm more inclined to believe our Lord is the true vine.

      1  I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

 2  Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

 3  Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

 4  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

 5  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing   


I see the vine as a type of tree.

No, the tree of life is an actual tree. Rev 22:2 "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

Again I am surprised that you can so quickly supplant the meaning of Rev 22:2, to replace the tree of life with another, even the risen Christ, when you are so pedantic about the literal number 1000.

So everything taught by the prophets and apostles can be thrown out

My authority is the bible everything I say is based in scripture.
Everything you say is based on your own ideas, rather than on the consensus of scholars. Please explain why we should be interested in what you have to say, when there are so many learned people with different opinions?

Are you trying to debunk people with academic learning? It seems to me to be one of your goals here,

How would you respond to "It sounds like Quakers can believe anything they like―is that so?"

So at what time in the history of the world as we know it could God possibly say everything was very good.
The only time The Father could say these words is at the end of the millenium the millennium is the Father's sabbath rest not forgetting what our Lord said.

     Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.     

So the Father and Son were still working when Jesus said these words can only mean the Father sabbath rest is a future event and I say its the millennium.
He could say that before the fall, and he could say it any time he liked. For God doesn't sin.

Tit 1:15 "To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted."

It's often the light you see something in that determines how you think about it. God views creation in his own light.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #139 on: April 27, 2021, 05:22:42 PM »
hi eik
Tank you for your reply lets look at a few different verses.

Psa 2:6  Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 
Psa 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 
Psa 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession       
     
Isa 2:1  The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 
Isa 2:2  And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 
Isa 2:3  And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 
Isa 2:4  And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 

 Jer 23:5  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.       


all these verses speak of Christ ruling here on earth

love and Peace
Dave

Online eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #140 on: April 27, 2021, 08:10:36 PM »
hi eik
Tank you for your reply lets look at a few different verses.

Psa 2:6  Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession       
     
Isa 2:1  The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
Isa 2:2  And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3  And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4  And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

 Jer 23:5  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.       


all these verses speak of Christ ruling here on earth

love and Peace
Dave
Jhn 18:37 "Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."

Jhn 18:36 Jesus said,"My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

The kingship of Christ is "not of this world." What don't you grasp? Again you reduce orthodox theology to nought.


Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #141 on: April 28, 2021, 11:32:53 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply if I understand you correctly I cannot rely on my English translation of scripture it's unreliable because I have to change the meaning of words to coincide with man made theology which man.
I have given you quite a rew verses which I say proves beyond any doubt that Christ will reign here on earth for a thousand years yet you reject all of them saying they mean something entirely different.
So what you are saying is I am not allowed to read and believe the word of God I have to believe the word of man jest because he is well educated as I recall Jesus did not have much good to say about the academics of his day.
So as I see it a straight reading of the verses I have quoted say without a shadow of a doubt that Christ will reign here on earth for a thousand years then he will hand everything back to the Father who will create a new heaven and earth pretty simple and straight forward

Love and Peace
Dave

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #142 on: April 28, 2021, 07:01:42 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply if I understand you correctly I cannot rely on my English translation of scripture it's unreliable because I have to change the meaning of words to coincide with man made theology which man.
I have given you quite a rew verses which I say proves beyond any doubt that Christ will reign here on earth for a thousand years yet you reject all of them saying they mean something entirely different.
Not a single verse said anything about Christ reigning on earth. Please elaborate and explain exactly why the verses you have selected say that Christ will reign on this earth.

So what you are saying is I am not allowed to read and believe the word of God I have to believe the word of man jest because he is well educated as I recall Jesus did not have much good to say about the academics of his day.
Christ never said that he was returning to reign on earth. That seems to be a crucial matter that you're missing. It is an omission of supreme importance.

So as I see it a straight reading of the verses I have quoted say without a shadow of a doubt that Christ will reign here on earth for a thousand years then he will hand everything back to the Father who will create a new heaven and earth pretty simple and straight forward
I know you "see" it that way. But I see it as a straight forward case of Christ saying,

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Mat 25:32 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Mat 25:33 "And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

Mat 25:34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

.
.
.

Mat 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

So you can easily see that Christ said nothing about any millennium on his return.


Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #143 on: April 29, 2021, 11:52:44 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply I don't  understand why you ignore all the scriptures I have given you here's one more.

    4  And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 5  And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee       


As far as I know this prophecy has not bean fulfilled to date so the Lord setting his feet on the mount of Olives is a future event so Christ will return to earth.

As for these wonderful verses you have quoted.

    Mat 25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Mat 25:32 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Mat 25:33 "And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

Mat 25:34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world         


What a wonderful description of the millenium Christs 1000 year reign here on earth.
This earth was created by God for man to live in and look after it is a beautiful and wonderful place all we need now is for the King of Kings to take his rightful place on the throne of his glory and to rule.

Just read these verses thought them relevant.

     and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:39 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.24.39.ESV   

     Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Matthew 24:44 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.24.44.ESV             


So the question is if our Lord is coming where is he coming to if not planet earth

Love and Peace
Dave



https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.24.39.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.24.44.ESV

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