Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 6581 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 300
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #128 on: April 21, 2021, 10:19:28 PM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
Quote
   
    Showing your credentials as a true JW, for JW alone believe in the repopulation of the earth:
    I am not a jw never has been
You believe in a regenerated / renewed earth and a time of peace with the resurrected dead, even if it is only during the millennium. That's hardcore JW doctrine you're thinking of (except for the millennium bit).


Quote
   
    Rather:  Isa 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."
    the new heavens and earth will be created after Christs thousand year reign when he hands everything back to the Father         
I point out to you below that the end of the millennium, which you say is the end of Christ's reign, is the rebellion of Gog and Magog, so why would Christ hand back such a disorderly kingdom to the Father at that time?

Quote
   
    1Co 15:50  "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
    this very true as Paul tells us we will all be changed       
When, in relation to your millennium?

Quote
   
    1Co 15:15 "Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not."

    that Christ has been raised up is not in dispute its a historical fact           
If so, then why cannot the adopted son's of God be resurrected to heaven along with Christ? Why are they resurrected to live on earth during the millennium?

Quote

    If you don't believe the dead can rise to eternal life in heaven, then you don't believe God raised Christ up either.

    At the return of Christ, the Christian will see these signs:

    Luk 17:24 "For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day."

    that Gods word says this will happen then that's what will happen can't see what this has to do with the discussion         
Is the "lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven" what will happen at the beginning of the millennium, or the end of it?

I think you're saying that the lightning is at the beginning, with the return of Christ. However my point is that it is inconsistent with Christ coming down to earth, and so is not compatible with your millennium "reign on earth" theory. Christ remains in heaven.

Quote
   
    The only sight of Christ himself for the Christian lies in heaven:

    Act 7:56 "And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."
    when these words were spoken thats where Christ was         
I wasn't aware that Christ said that he was only going back to heaven on a temporary basis.

Quote
   
    And the return of Christ is to receive the harvest, not to re-populate the earth.

    Matt 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers (i.e. the angels), Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
    so with this you agree that all those who are Christs will be gathered together to him as I have said this will happen at the beginning of his 1000 year reign
It's what you say, but it's not what Christ said.

Quote
   
    Mar 13:27 "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."
    again this will happen when he beginshis 1000 years reign
It's what you say, but not what Christ says.

Quote
   
    Rev 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."
    this will happen  at the end of Christs 1000 year reign when he hands everything back to the Father who will create the new heaven and earth       
At the end of the "millennium," Gog and Magog are let loose to roam the earth to rebel against God.

Rev 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison."

Rev 20:8 "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

This could all take some considerable time. Satan has to (a) deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, (b) gather them together to battle.

This is some serious work by Satan. I can't see why Christ would be handing everything back to God, when all these rebels inhabit the earth?


Quote
 
    Mar 12:25 "For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."

    this will happen at the return of Christ to raise the dead  and as Paul tells us
I thought you said that when Christ returns, the dead will be raised to re-populate the "millennium" earth. You said yourself you were looking forward to it. How many earths are there to be in your view? I count three, (a) this earth, (b) a millennium earth, (c) a new earth.

Quote
 
         1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, View more

    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed           
  I take it from this we will become spiritual being like the angels
When will that be in relation to your millennium?

Quote
 
    2Pe 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
    I think this is speaking of the end of Christs 1000 year reign when satan is released with all those who belong to him           
Why would God destroy a beautiful and newly regenerate "millennium" earth destined to be lived in by the saints in peace?

Quote
 
    2Th 1:7 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
    again this is speaking of the start of Christs 1000 year reign           
So, as long we're not living in the millennium, we should be protected from Christ's vengeance and this scripture has no direct application to us here and now?

Quote
 
    You are gravely mistaken in confounding the prophecy of the millennium with the second coming of Christ. I think that, linked with your JW theory of resurrection to repopulating the earth, puts your doctrine in a rather unique category, hardly in tune with Christianity as a corporative endeavour.

    how many times must I write this I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JW
    I have never said we will inherit the world in the flesh it contradicts what Paul has to say           
Your millennium is the same idea as the JW idea of heaven for the unelect.

Quote
 
    Watch out for this prophecy:

    Acts 20:30 "Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. "
thank you for the warning don't forget to take note yourself
I already have. You can find my point of view in the bible commentaries written since time immemorial. I'm not saying anything new.

Finally then we have the teaching that Christ is at this moment the ruler of New Jerusalem  Gal 4:26, Heb 12:22 which is above, in heaven, and to which the saints have come, even whilst on this earth; and yet you want to make them all slaves again of the old Jerusalem in the future, (a) either making Christ the ruler of old Jerusalem during the millennium, or (b) putting the new Jerusalem on an old earth during the millennium, whereas we know from: 

Rev 21:1, 2  "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

that if and when the new Jerusalem descends from heaven, it will only be to a new earth and a new heavens, which as you indicate will be post millennium, and yet not. Because for you the millennium also represents a new earth, which conflicts with the above.

I conclude your ill thought-out theories show all the signs of a fabricated theology created out of a prophecy that you can't understand, which the apostles never taught and which the bible deprecates in no uncertain terms.

You see there is an inherent contradiction in your theology. You don't understand that the kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom. The saints don't need a physical pope on earth. There will be no world domination by a Christian ruler to bend the pagans to the will of God. That is not the bible plan. You show the same symptoms as Catholics and their pope, and the unbelieving Jews and their worldly messiah at the time of Christ, in longing for a Christian ruler to set the world aright, but it isn't going to happen because it's not in God's plan. As Revelation shows the world is now governed by the angels of God's wrath on behalf of Christ, pouring out their plagues on humanity as and when Christ himself dictates.

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3427
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #129 on: April 22, 2021, 01:51:03 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
  You believe in a regenerated / renewed earth and a time of peace with the resurrected dead, even if it is only during the millennium. That's hardcore JW doctrine you're thinking of (except for the millennium bit         

Not everything they say is wrong and this applies to all denominations they are all right and wrong we can all fail at some point but its not so much in what we believe but what's in our hearts thats where God looks I believe there are members of Christs body in all denominations

Quote
      I point out to you below that the end of the millennium, which you say is the end of Christ's reign, is the rebellion of Gog and Magog, so why would Christ hand back such a disorderly kingdom to the Father at that time   

Satan and Gog and Magog will be released at the end of the millenium as the final test of those who have come through the millennium the same reason satan was let into the creation at the beginning so that we can chose between good and evil we choose the good through our freewill gift of LOVE to God and our fellow man love is the beginning and the end of creation.

Quote
        this very true as Paul tells us we will all be changed     
 
When, in relation to your millennium         

This will be at the beginning of the millenium the dead in him will be raised and those in him that are alive will be changed.

Quote
      If so, then why cannot the adopted son's of God be resurrected to heaven along with Christ? Why are they resurrected to live on earth during the millennium       

Because we have to go through the learning prosses of the millenium and the final test at the end nothing evil can enter the presence of God.

Quote
     Is the "lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven" what will happen at the beginning of the millennium, or the end of it     

Never forget Christ is the light of the world when he returns everyone will know he will light the whole world
Everyone who enters the millennium will bathe in his light for a 1000 years.

Quote
  I wasn't aware that Christ said that he was only going back to heaven on a temporary basis       

He never did say that why do you say such things besides where Christ is is heaven.

Quote
      It's what you say, but it's not what Christ said.     

But Christ did say Matt 13:30 the wheat represents all those who are his.

Quote
   At the end of the "millennium," Gog and Magog are let loose to roam the earth to rebel against God       

Agreed this is what the bible says this is what will happen to speculate on how long it will take is pointless like I said above its a test period.

Quote
     I thought you said that when Christ returns, the dead will be raised to re-populate the "millennium" earth. You said yourself you were looking forward to it. How many earths are there to be in your view? I count three, (a) this earth, (b) a millennium earth, (c) a new earth         

What I have said is when Christ returns the dead will rise and those who are alive will be changed into the same beings as those who are raised from the dead and all these beings will occupy the millennium I assume that these beings will be the same as the angles.

Quote
             
Why would God destroy a beautiful and newly regenerate "millennium" earth destined to be lived in by the saints in peace     

At the end of the millenium Christ hands everything back to God who will create a new heaven and earth.

Quote
    Finally then we have the teaching that Christ is at this moment the ruler of New Jerusalem  Gal 4:26, Heb 12:22 which is above, in heaven, and to which the saints have come, even whilst on this earth; and yet you want to make them all slaves again of the old Jerusalem in the future, (a) either making Christ the ruler of old Jerusalem during the millennium, or (b) putting the new Jerusalem on an old earth during the millennium, whereas we know from         

I do not recall mentioning the old Jerusalem but the new Jerusalem which is the body of Christ and Christ the head is the Jerusalem that will descend from heaven at the end of the millenium to rule the new world which God will create


I do believe God is spiritual and all those who are Christs will be changed

   Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.         

Love and Peace
Dave




Online eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 300
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #130 on: April 23, 2021, 07:15:35 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

Not everything they say is wrong and this applies to all denominations they are all right and wrong we can all fail at some point but its not so much in what we believe but what's in our hearts thats where God looks I believe there are members of Christs body in all denominations
Non-sequitur. Hearts are only purified by faith, Acrts 15:9, Eph 3:17, Heb 10:22 and faith must be true and uncorrupted by mere babling:

Tit 1:10 "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;"

Conclusion: if you're a believer in fairy tales, your heart is not going to be pure:

Satan and Gog and Magog will be released at the end of the millenium as the final test of those who have come through the millennium the same reason satan was let into the creation at the beginning so that we can chose between good and evil we choose the good through our freewill gift of LOVE to God and our fellow man love is the beginning and the end of creation.
But you're evading the issue of exactly whom will be present during the millennium. You have indicated it includes the resurrected, as you say you look forward to it , so it suggests that the resurrected to the millennium are liable once again to be deceived.  This is a kind of re-incarnation doctrine you are proposing?

This will be at the beginning of the millenium the dead in him will be raised and those in him that are alive will be changed.

Because we have to go through the learning prosses of the millenium and the final test at the end nothing evil can enter the presence of God.
Re-incarnation not resurrection then.

Never forget Christ is the light of the world when he returns everyone will know he will light the whole world
Everyone who enters the millennium will bathe in his light for a 1000 years.
As if they hadn't bathed in his light for a lifetime beforehand? You preach a false gospel then: i.e. that the true Christ cannot be known outside of the millennium.

He never did say that why do you say such things besides where Christ is is heaven.
It's what you said. You say he went up to heaven but only until the start of the millennium, but then he comes back down again to rule on earth in Jerusalem.

But Christ did say Matt 13:30 the wheat represents all those who are his.
But Christ didn't say that he would gather up the wheat at the beginning of the millennium. That's your false teaching.

Agreed this is what the bible says this is what will happen to speculate on how long it will take is pointless like I said above its a test period.
Test period? It's rather the final attempt to annihilate Christianity from the face of the earth.

What I have said is when Christ returns the dead will rise and those who are alive will be changed into the same beings as those who are raised from the dead and all these beings will occupy the millennium I assume that these beings will be the same as the angles.
Just faerie tales nowhere authenticated by anything in the bible.

At the end of the millenium Christ hands everything back to God who will create a new heaven and earth.
Unfortunately for your theory, the Gog and Magog rebellion are outside the millennium period (check out Rev).

I do not recall mentioning the old Jerusalem but the new Jerusalem which is the body of Christ and Christ the head is the Jerusalem that will descend from heaven at the end of the millenium to rule the new world which God will create
So who is ruling from where during the millennium?

I do believe God is spiritual and all those who are Christs will be changed

   Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.         
So we have a heaven on earth during the millennium, on an old earth, populated by reinarnated souls with physical bodies, such that the "new world which God will create" must either become populated by mere men, or by men who have undergone a double resurrection.

Unfortunately your doctrine is a contradiction in terms. For you have posited a resurrection from the dead to the old physical earth at the start of the millennium, but then you say "all those who are Christs will be changed." But if they are inhabiting an old earth, they can't be anything more than men. And unless they are resurrected for a second time, the new earth must also be a physical earth. The most you can articulate then is separate reincarnations / resurrections, one at the start of the millennium and another at the end of it.

Men as vampires who can never die, or possibly they can die and then be brought back to life again, and again for surely Christians will die at the end of the millennium under the rule of Gog and Magog (the bible also says nothing about men not dying during the millennium)?

Crazy stuff: something out of a science fiction novel. How can you expect anyone to believe in anything you say. Why should we credit this as orthodox Christianity? Who appointed you to articulate this stuff? Is it by peddling such that you seek to win souls for Christ?

I will repeat for at least the third time what Revelation itself says: Rev 2:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. "

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3427
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #131 on: April 23, 2021, 11:44:56 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your posts they have stimulated my little grey cells but you are getting a little tiresome it seams you never give your interpretation of the scriptures under discussion but just pick holes in everything others say.
I get the impression you are only here for a jolly good argument so what anybody says you will say the opposite I don't think this is a good way to spread Gods word that we have different interpretations is quite in order but you very rarely give yours.
We have bean exchanging words for some time now and I don't have a clue what you believe in the only thing I do get is that you believe when we die we all float of to a airy fairy heaven and live happily ever after I see this as contradicting scripture I'm sorry if this offends you.
If you wish to continue thats fine but let's have some of what you believe in and the scriptures to back it up I think I've  made it plain what I believe and going over the same ground all the time can be very boring for those reading our posts so lets have a bit of what you believe in.

Love and Peace
Dave

Online eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 300
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #132 on: April 23, 2021, 07:16:28 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your posts they have stimulated my little grey cells but you are getting a little tiresome it seams you never give your interpretation of the scriptures under discussion but just pick holes in everything others say.
I get the impression you are only here for a jolly good argument so what anybody says you will say the opposite I don't think this is a good way to spread Gods word that we have different interpretations is quite in order but you very rarely give yours.
We have bean exchanging words for some time now and I don't have a clue what you believe in the only thing I do get is that you believe when we die we all float of to a airy fairy heaven and live happily ever
after I see this as contradicting scripture I'm sorry if this offends you.
It certainly does offend me, because you deny the adoption of mankind as sons of God to be resurrected to heaven, as Jesus himself. That is why you are so keen to denote the ultimate man as only the image of God, but not a son of God. For you, mankind never escapes his humanity, which I deem heretical. In fact it doesn't even qualify as orthodox Christianity.

If you wish to continue thats fine but let's have some of what you believe in and the scriptures to back it up I think I've  made it plain what I believe and going over the same ground all the time can be very boring for those reading our posts so lets have a bit of what you believe in.
What you believe is not made out in scripture. You don't believe "He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will," Eph 1:5.

What you believe is ""He predestined us to become in the image of God like the human Christ."

That isn't Christianity, or at least its only stage 1.

You don't believe: 1 Cor 2:9 "Rather, as it is written: " No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him." "

You think this is "airy fairie."

What I believe is found in Barnes Commentary, for the most part.
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bnb.html

As to heaven, what I believe is conventional, per Anglicanism, per so many other "denominations."

In a nutshell I utterly reject any conception of heaven on earth, and I also reject your millennialism as unscriptural nonsense. I reject your attempt to manipulate the "image of God" concept to develop a theology centred on man as the "image of God" and on the "millennium."

What I find puzzling is that you are so convinced that you are right, when the only ones whom could possibly agree with your humanist "heaven on earth" approach are the JWs which you claim not to agree with.

Why don't you start justifying how it is you manage to disagree with 99.99% of the rest of Christendom?

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bnb.html

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3427
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #133 on: April 24, 2021, 02:17:43 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you have my unreserved apologies for offending you.
Seams to me that this whole discussion hinges on the following verses.

     2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. View more

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, View more

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. View more

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. View more

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. View more

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. View more

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison       


I say that the word thousand means exactly what it says 1000 years and if I understand you correctly you are saying it means just a long period time do you have any scripture to back that up.

So you are saying when the scriptures says

     but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years     

That this is not true.

I have never said we will not be sons of God of course we will the scripture make that plain you make assumptions about me that are not true.

Quote
   
What you believe is ""He predestined us to become in the image of God like the human Christ     

I have never said this either what I have said is Christ and his church are united they will be the image of God and will be given back to the Father who then will create a new heaven and earth.

As for the link you have given just another manmade interpretation of  scripture I prefer to stick to the original.

As for heaven on earth what do you think this means.

   Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever             

That Christ has bean reigning from the beginning of creation is not in question and he will continue to reign into eternity.

Quote
     What I find puzzling is that you are so convinced that you are right, when the only ones whom could possibly agree with your humanist "heaven on earth" approach are the JWs which you claim not to agree with             

The same applies to you the only way you can make sense of what you believe is by changing the words of scripture as we have them.

Quote
  Why don't you start justifying how it is you manage to disagree with 99.99% of the rest of Christendom       

The only one thing I may differ on to any degree is the creation account in Genesis don't get me wrong I believe every word it says I just believe it makes more sense to look at it starting with Noah to the present and beyond.

Love and Peace
Dave

Online eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 300
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #134 on: April 25, 2021, 04:09:44 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you have my unreserved apologies for offending you.
Seams to me that this whole discussion hinges on the following verses.

     2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. View more

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, View more

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. View more

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. View more

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. View more

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. View more

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison       


I say that the word thousand means exactly what it says 1000 years and if I understand you correctly you are saying it means just a long period time do you have any scripture to back that up.

No, that's not the only issue as I have told you so many times. The issue is that you are determined to create a new theology out of a prophecy, for which there is no evidence at all.

As I have mentioned in another thread, the tree of eternal life exists in heaven. It is not to be located on the earth. There is no way that the millennium, whether one thousand year or more, or less, can be converted into a earthly paradise resembling the garden of Eden. Eden is history. It's re-invention is a true fairy tale.

Satan is not the only source of deception. Mankind themselves will be deceived by their own lusts and sin and deceive others. For mankind is quite capable of fufilling the role of Satan.

2Ti 3:13 "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived."

Satan is but the god of this world. We know however that antichrists will arise to draw away disciples after them. Check out Rev 13. Men will worship world powers and their legal systems, whether secular government or a blasphemous form of spiritual government (corrupted church).

It is your theology I object to: a very simplistic theology that says: reduce the power of satan and heaven will result. It's not like that, as a true study of Revelation shows. You have taken one verse and attempted to create a gnostic theology out of it, which cannot but trample on the disclosure by Christ that paradise lies in heaven.

So you are saying when the scriptures says

     but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years     

That this is not true.
I am saying that the presence of a priest in a position of authority doesn't infer a state of heaven. For along side priests are often found non-priests. In any event if you read the history of the Catholic church you will see that amongst the priests have always been great sinners.

What the bible never says about the millennium is that sin will disappear, or that anyone will be resurrected / reincarnated to participate in it.

I have never said we will not be sons of God of course we will the scripture make that plain you make assumptions about me that are not true.
The point about a son of God is that the sons of God are resurrected to heaven and wield their power in heaven, as Jesus himself.

Heb 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

Are you seeing yourself as a brother of Christ  following in the footsteps of Christ,  both in this life and in the next, or as some inferior kind of man, reserved only for a JW paradise of the non-elect (i.e. those not amongst the 144000)? Seems to me it's the latter.

I have never said this either what I have said is Christ and his church are united they will be the image of God and will be given back to the Father who then will create a new heaven and earth.
Yes but you have this sermon about the millennium, and the return of Christ not being coincident with the new heavens and new earth but with the advent of the millennium. And so you ignore what Christ taught himself.

As for the link you have given just another manmade interpretation of  scripture I prefer to stick to the original.
That depends on whether you see the author as possessed by the Holy Spirit. Moreover it's a rather more scholarly interpretation than yours, and has stood the test of time for a century and more. Do think people will be remembering your millennium theory 150 years from now?

As I have frequently asked, is there anyone else who believes in it? You have never responded. Are you seeing yourself as some heresiarch prophesying the return of Eden? I am sure the left wing communist element would be delighted to hear it. A millennium devoted to communism? Music to the ears of the secular left wing, who imagine that all sins should go unpunished, except disbelief in the communist enterprise, as that would be not to show "love?"

As for heaven on earth what do you think this means.

   Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever             

That Christ has bean reigning from the beginning of creation is not in question and he will continue to reign into eternity.

The same applies to you the only way you can make sense of what you believe is by changing the words of scripture as we have them.

The only one thing I may differ on to any degree is the creation account in Genesis don't get me wrong I believe every word it says I just believe it makes more sense to look at it starting with Noah to the present and beyond.
The verse means just as it says. I have never said anything to the contrary. I have never denied Christ is reigning, but you seem to think his only option is to come down to earth to create this millennium kingdom. That seems to limit the power of Christ to rule from heaven, and limit the power of heaven itself, which is the consequence of seeking to set up a millennium kingdom on earth to rival heaven. Such is mere delusion.


Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3427
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #135 on: April 25, 2021, 11:44:30 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply  avoiding the question again with smoke and mirrors so I ask again on what scripture do you base your assumption that that the words a thousand years don't mean exactly what they say and I take it from your answer above you don't have one.

So I say again with all the scriptures in the previous post to back me up that Christ will reign here on earth for 1000 years over all those who are resurrected in the first resurrection as stated in scripture which always override what man has to say.

The tree of life is Jesus Christ the true vine the tree of knowledge of good and evil is Israel and the law to be in the image of God we need that knowledge so that we can choose the good of our own free will which is to Love God and our neighbours and our enemies.

Yes you are right my theology is very simple I have this very simplistic view that God loves us and wants us to know who he is what he has done what he is doing and what he will do in the future all through Jesus Christ.

Quote
    The point about a son of God is that the sons of God are resurrected to heaven and wield their power in heaven, as Jesus himself     

Scripture please to proove this besides heaven is where God and Christ are if they are on the earth then heaven will be here.

 Christ has been creating from the very beginning its through him and for him all things are created the millenium is a given fact as stated in Revelation and part of the creation process the end of creation is man in the image of God which is Jesus Christ at the end of his millennial reign.

Love and Peace
Dave

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal