Author Topic: Murder,kill,destroy  (Read 6578 times)

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Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #120 on: April 14, 2021, 07:14:56 AM »

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said

I have said before I do not intend to teach anyone what I am here for is to discuss Gods word with like minded and hopefully help one another to understand God's word.

All the teachers we need are found in scripture I don't believe we need anymore.
I don't agree with your last comment. We can only understand scripture so far by ourselves. We can grasp the gospels especially by ourselves, perhaps, and the New Testament. Yet when it comes to the Old Testament, and Revelation based heavily on OT symbolism, then we need help due to the unfamiliar context, the difficulty in the biblical nomenclature as contrasted with archaelogical names, the problems with dating and timelines, and the fact that the world was a very different place in those days than it is today.

Such learning is to be gained today from others wiser than ourselves. Moses was very old and very wise before God accepted him for his service. That's not to say that there aren't a lot of heretics in the academic institutions. There are, but you can't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I left secondary modern school aged 15 if that answers your question.

Like I  have said I don't think the God who loves us would make life so complicated English is good enough.
English was made for the English which involves a fusion of ancient Germanic and superimposed Catholic concepts. It is not necessarily well placed to match word for word the language and context of an ancient levantian society existing 3500 years ago, and a patriarchal society existing long before that. There are always going to be inherent difficulties in conveying the sense of such ancient Hebrew texts in just a single line of modern English, which itself is an evolving language. The anglicized names in the bible are inherently difficult to relate to history, where many of the ancient rulers had more than one name.

The names given to God or gods by the ancients is also difficult. Thus the pantheistic Canaanite  'El was adopted for use by the YHWH worshippers too, and denotes a generic name for God, whereas the name of the true God, Enki in Sumerian / Babylonian, became supplanted by idol gods (cf. the tower of Babel), and so had to be displaced by the YHWH name for the Hebrews to make clear whom the true God really was amongst the plethora of idols. If you are going to study the Old Testament you will have to draw on scholarly resourses.

What I am saying is please don't underestimate the immensity of the task that the Old Testament presents, which deals with 4000 years of history, BC. There are many who reject the OT today, as throughout history, because they don't have sufficient knowledge or willingness or faith to grasp its historicity. That doesn't give anyone a license to pervert or corrupt it. The kind of theologicans that you have admitted to reading are certainly of the "wrong sort" IMO.

And the church is the woman the bride of Christ his helper as Eve was Adam's helper not hard to understand.
That's a scripturally authorized metaphor, a kind of parable. Yet the use of such can be overdone where unsanctioned by scripture. It doesn't covey any license to gratuitously invent our own metaphors which can be dangerous if not already sanctioned.

There is no lesser degree Christ is the end of creation man in the image of God as stated in Heb 1-3
Man is already in the image of God. What he is called to be is a son of God. He is not called to be "Christ" but Christ-like. If he wasn't already in the image of God, the command of God to repent would make no sense. The NT is predicated on the fact that man is already in the image of God, but he is fallen from that image.

The NT concept is our adoption as a "son of God" Gal 4:5, Eph 1:5 by putting on the divine nature. Why not stick with that, inside of trying to invent some gnostic concept relating to God's image?

I never said Noah and his family were destroyed there were saved through the flood so That God cold finish his creation.
God said that he had already finished his creation.Gen 2:2

Maybe the Mormons are right  about this you seam to enjoy putting down other Christian groups.
The concept of a spiritual wife in mormonism has been used to justify adultery and polygamy and is occult.

What Peter said was

       But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/2pe.3.8.ESV     


As I see it Peter Peter gave this as a fact not as a figure of speech  he said for a very important reason.
Less important than you make out. "Important reason" is not so you can go off and create a new brand of dispensationalism, of which variants the world is quite sick of after Darbyism, Mormonism, JWism, Theosophy etc etc.

I am not trying to trash intellectuals the problem I have is there are so many of them dissecting every word of scripture and giving different interpretations that ordenary people can't make head nor tail of the bible.
Ordinary people of which I am one "can" make head and tail of truth and falsehood, by the Spirit. You underestimate every person's (i.e. Christian's) innate capacity for discerning truth. What is required is to announce the truth and identify the false teachers, to prevent people from being led astray.

The identification of false teachers is an inherently important part of any Christian activity for a knowledgeable Christian. Who then in your opinion are the false teachers of today? Or is it just that you reject every church? I've already told you that I reject your theologians as teachers of truth. Who are the correct theologians, and the churches of God?

I would personally request that you start saying which accepted theologies and church you actually espouse. It would be more informative if you could refer yourself to authorities, as is the academic tradition practiced the world over. Christianity has been around for 2000 years. Trying to present yourself as an author of original truth the world has not heard before isn't credible, as I have already stated to you.

If you are here to discuss, as you say, why not refer to those whom you accept and those whom you reject?

In your millennialism you have restricted yourself to a brand of theology that is inherently dispensationalist in outlook, and is off the rails, IMO. One thing the world has never needed is millennialism linked to a physical reign of Christ on earth: the most abjectly useless and self-abasing "theology"ever invented since High Trinitarianism and its heretical positing of three equal Gods. Heresy is enough to put me off religion" for life (cf. Rom 2:24). If God is so powerless that he cannot reign properly from heaven, then why is he construed as God at all? So your God is far too small for my liking. If you knew whom God was, you would recognize that he does not need to come to earth to "reign."

You would recognize the peace of God as belonging to those whom are true believers, rather than something to be put off to a future millennium.

We have all the teachers we need in the bible we don't need any more.
God doesn't think so as he appointed some to be teachers.

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #121 on: April 16, 2021, 01:40:08 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply I disagree the bible in any language is as God wants it to be I believe the God we worship and who created the universe the world and everything in it can create a book as he wants it to be and a mere man can not interfere with it us ordenary people have to believe that Gods word is exactly that God's word.

If I understand what you are saying is we can't trust any of the words we have in English because they can mean something entirely different.
So I should trust what men say and not what God says which man shall I go to the pope.

Dose  it really matter which name God has is it not good with enough just to call him God or Father works for me.

I can agree with you that the OT is a fantastic book with hight and depth of  meaning and the meaning can only come from God its only God who can reveal the truth and he can do it in any language he likes.

I keep saying this that the only man in scripture who is said to be the express image of the Father is Christ and that will be at his second coming when he marries his bride and they become one as discribed in Genesis.

Quote
       God said that he had already finished his creation.Gen 2:2       

If God was finished as you say he has not made a very good job of creation and has failed If we look at the state of world from the beginning until now and the God I love and worship can not fail.
So what I say his pronouncement of very good will be given with the coming of Christ for his bride the end of the 6 days of creation the crowning glory of God's creation man in his image.

Quote
      What Peter said was

       But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/2pe.3.8.ESV     

As I see it Peter Peter gave this as a fact not as a figure of speech  he said for a very important reason.
Less important than you make out. "Important reason" is not so you can go off and create a new brand of dispensationalism, of which variants the world is quite sick of after Darbyism, Mormonism, JWism, Theosophy etc etc       

Saying what Peter says is a figure of speech is just a cop out be cause it Messes up the creation account and the way Peter words it its as plain as the nose on your face that he means exactly what he says with God a day is a thousand years I can't understand why people don't believe the plain reading of scripture.

Quote
      Ordinary people of which I am one "can" make head and tail of truth and falsehood, by the Spirit. You underestimate every person's (i.e. Christian's) innate capacity for discerning truth. What is required is to announce the truth and identify the false teachers, to prevent people from being led astray     

Who made us judges I thought judgment would happen when Christ returns out of all the different theologies and doctrines out there how on earth are we to choose the right one my answer is stick to the bible and reject all man made theology and doctrines

I keep saying this I don't attach myself to any man made theology my authority for what I say comes from the bible if its right or wrong Christ will judge I believe the word of God is the word of God.

Quote
          We have all the teachers we need in the bible we don't need any more.

God doesn't think so as he appointed some to be teachers.     

The only teacher that I can be absolutely sure of is the 12 apostles chosen by Christ all we can do is spread there teachings.

Love and Peace
Dave


https://bible.com/bible/59/2pe.3.8.ESV

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #122 on: April 17, 2021, 01:48:08 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply I disagree the bible in any language is as God wants it to be
How do you know?

I believe the God we worship and who created the universe the world and everything in it can create a book as he wants it to be and a mere man can not interfere with it us ordenary people have to believe that Gods word is exactly that God's word.
That's called fatalism, which isn't taught in the bible. In fact it's a sin e.g. Isaish 22:13-10.


If I understand what you are saying is we can't trust any of the words we have in English because they can mean something entirely different.
Not "entirely different." But within a range of contextually possible and related meanings: just so.

E.g. Adam = man = mankind = one human man = one spiritual man = spiritual man as a corporative enterprise.

So I should trust what men say and not what God says which man shall I go to the pope.
Unless you are in direct communication with God.....

Dose  it really matter which name God has is it not good with enough just to call him God or Father works for me.
Not if you're studying the OT. God has many names:

El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
El Elyon (The Most High God)
Adonai (Lord, Master)
Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner)
Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd)
Jehovah Rapha (The Lord That Heals)
Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)
Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
El Olam (The Everlasting God)
Elohim (God)
Qanna (Jealous)
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)

So does Ba'al:
El
Baal (demon), a Christian demon, loosely identified with the Canaanite god
Baal Peor, a Canaanite deity
Belphegor ("Lord of the Gap"), a demon in Christian demonology
Baal-Berith and El-Berith, gods of a Canaanite city ("Lord of the Covenant"), a god, viewed as demon in Christian demonology
Beelzebub (Baalzebul), "Lord of the manor"; Baalzebub, Beelzebuth, "Lord of the (heavenly) dwelling, identified with the Devil
Baal Hadad
Baʿal Hammon
Chemosh
Molech
Tammuz

What is the difference in all these names? Why were the children of Israelites kings frequently named after ba'al?

Given all these different (g)Gods, it is clear that not everyone was worshipping the same God.

So to just have one name for God, as is the modern convention,  isn't good enough, because it doesn't reflect the reality that people worship different (g)Gods.

I can agree with you that the OT is a fantastic book with hight and depth of  meaning and the meaning can only come from God its only God who can reveal the truth and he can do it in any language he likes.

I keep saying this that the only man in scripture who is said to be the express image of the Father is Christ and that will be at his second coming when he marries his bride and they become one as discribed in Genesis.
The purpose of the second coming is adoption to sonship (Rom 8:23 "we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies").

If God was finished as you say he has not made a very good job of creation and has failed
Only if you see God's purposes as confined to this world. Jn 18:36 "But now my kingdom is from another place."

If we look at the state of world from the beginning until now and the God I love and worship can not fail.
So what I say his pronouncement of very good will be given with the coming of Christ for his bride the end of the 6 days of creation the crowning glory of God's creation man in his image.
This is not what the bible teaches. 2Pe 3:10, Mat 24:40,41, Luk 17:34,35. The ones who are "taken" are those taken to heaven. The ones who are left are those who will be destroyed (cf. Noah and the flood).

Saying what Peter says is a figure of speech is just a cop out be cause it Messes up the creation account and the way Peter words it its as plain as the nose on your face that he means exactly what he says with God a day is a thousand years I can't understand why people don't believe the plain reading of scripture.
This isn't what the scripture says.

If you want to be involved in the millennium industry, nothing's going to stop you. See John Nelson Darby. But count me out.

Who made us judges I thought judgment would happen when Christ returns out of all the different theologies and doctrines out there how on earth are we to choose the right one my answer is stick to the bible and reject all man made theology and doctrines
Good. Then we discount millennialism, as none of the apostles ever preached it.

I keep saying this I don't attach myself to any man made theology my authority for what I say comes from the bible if its right or wrong Christ will judge I believe the word of God is the word of God.
Millennialism is a man made theology (period). All the bible prophecies is, "Satan will be bound for a thousand years (i.e. his power will be restrained) and then unbound." That's all it says. Nothing more.

The only teacher that I can be absolutely sure of is the 12 apostles chosen by Christ all we can do is spread there teachings.
You have turned millennialism into a theology, when it is at most a prophecy, and a prophecy that the bible itself says, "cannot be added to." That is what is so objectionable about it. You (and every other dispensationalist) just keep on adding to it: Christ reigning on earth, in person, in Jerusalem, a time of peace (even in the presence of Gog and Magog), a time of regeneration etc etc. And then you seem to think you're going to be around to enjoy the full 1000 years?

Rev 22:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll."

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #123 on: April 19, 2021, 02:10:19 PM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply I thought we should take a closer look at this millennium yes the word dose not appear anywhere in scripture so I will try not to use  it future just use the words a thousand years as the scriptures do.

      Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, View more

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season         


Why do you think satan will be locked away for a thousand years what is Gods purpose I say to remove evil from the world so that Christ can finish work of salvation.

  Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years           

I say this will happen here on earth this judgment has to happen here on earth this is where where the dead will be resurrected.

    Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection       

This is saying that only them who have accepted Christ as there Saviour will  be in the first resurrection.

    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years     

So we must make sure we are in the first resurrection and we will reign with Christ a thousand years you are saying this will not happen I can't see why it seams pretty plain to me Christ will reign for a thousand years.
Not forgetting heaven is where Christ and God are

You asked

Quote
    Quote from: davetaff on April 16, 2021, 01:40:08 PM
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply I disagree the bible in any language is as God wants it to be

How do you know       

I know because I believe the God of all creation can do anything he liks if he can create our DNA he can certainly produce a book as he wants it to be are the translators thoughts his own or do they come from God.
 
Quote
  Quote from: davetaff on April 16, 2021, 01:40:08 PM
Dose  it really matter which name God has is it not good with enough just to call him God or Father works for me.

Not if you're studying the OT. God has many names     

God may have many names but God should cover them all I can understand those who like to study languages as a hobby and an interest but I think reading Gods word in English is perfectly good for and most English speaking people.

Quote
    The purpose of the second coming is adoption to sonship (Rom 8:23 "we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies"       

This will happen during the thousand year reign of Christ thats what its for

Quote
  This is not what the bible teaches. 2Pe 3:10, Mat 24:40,41, Luk 17:34,35. The ones who are "taken" are those taken to heaven. The ones who are left are those who will be destroyed (cf. Noah and the flood       

Very very few have gone to heaven straight away we all sleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection.

Quote
     Good. Then we discount millennialism, as none of the apostles ever preached it.       

They don't say millenim but John dose say thousand year reign of Christ what do you call it

Quote
     Rev 22:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll     

I have not change anything all I have said is Christ will reign for a thousand years and thats what the bible says or are you saying it dose not say that.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #124 on: April 20, 2021, 04:31:57 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply I thought we should take a closer look at this millennium yes the word dose not appear anywhere in scripture so I will try not to use  it future just use the words a thousand years as the scriptures do.

      Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, View more

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season         


Why do you think satan will be locked away for a thousand years what is Gods purpose I say to remove evil from the world so that Christ can finish work of salvation.
By "finish," I assume you only mean, fulfil the numbers of all those predestined.

Rom 9:27 "Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved."

Rom 9:28 "For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality."

Rom 9:29 "It is just as Isaiah said previously: "Unless the Lord Almighty had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah."

The way I see the fulfilment of all things is that the world returns to being like Sodom and Gomorrah before it is destroyed.


  Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years           

I say this will happen here on earth this judgment has to happen here on earth this is where where the dead will be resurrected.
You're creating a theology out of a prophecy. What are your prophetic credentials?

    Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection       

This is saying that only them who have accepted Christ as there Saviour will  be in the first resurrection.

    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years     

So we must make sure we are in the first resurrection and we will reign with Christ a thousand years you are saying this will not happen I can't see why it seams pretty plain to me Christ will reign for a thousand years.
It is not saying "only them who have accepted Christ as there Saviour will  be in the first resurrection."

It is saying ""only them who been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God [and who] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands will  be in the first resurrection."

What is the first resurrection?

Rev 20:4 "They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

If Christ is in heaven, and Christ is already reigning, this event must happen in heaven. It is saying that the martyrs joined with Christ and reigned for a thousand years. It is saying that the martyrs will be honoured on earth, as Christ himself.

Rev 20:5 "(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection."

Will Christ "only" reign for a thousand years? It doesn't say that. It just says that there will be a period of a thousand years when the souls of those beheaded come to life "will reign with Christ."

Not forgetting heaven is where Christ and God are
The reign of heaven is eternal. Show me any passage in the entire bible where God transcends the boundary between heaven and earth to reign physically on earth? It's not going to happen because God appointed men to rule over the earth in the physical and coercive sense.

I know because I believe the God of all creation can do anything he liks if he can create our DNA he can certainly produce a book as he wants it to be are the translators thoughts his own or do they come from
God.
God might also cause pigs to fly. That's not to say he will. What is the evidence for your contention for having a 100% accurate bible translation in the KJV?

God may have many names but God should cover them all I can understand those who like to study languages as a hobby and an interest but I think reading Gods word in English is perfectly good for and most English speaking people.
By the KJV you may attain enough knowledge and faith for salvation, but you will make errors along the way, e.g. where the KJV confounds the names of Jesus and Joshua in the epistles. However I warrant you that merely reading the bible doesn't answer all the questions one may have on the bible. It also doesn't allow one to answer sceptics intelligibly: e.g. those who may say, the human race existed before Adam.

I have read the OT many times, but I need aids to help me understand the background and context.

Your idea that God will reveal everything to you in isolation is again a fairy tale. Faith is ultimately a mutual endeavour.

Your justification for self-mediocrity (as against bible scholars) is not found in the bible. Your assessment that no-one need know better than you is ill judged. Idolatry of the works of man is always wrong. You are not in a superior position, knowing only English, to judge what the text of the bible really means, as against one who knows the ancient languages. One should at least be able to use a concordance & interlinear and understand the principles of grammar.

This will happen during the thousand year reign of Christ thats what its for
Again, what are you prophetic credentials? You seem to be a believer in fairy tales of your own devising.

Very very few have gone to heaven straight away we all sleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection.
Resurrection to this earth or something better?

I have not change anything all I have said is Christ will reign for a thousand years and thats what the bible says or are you saying it dose not say that.
The bible doesn't say "Christ will reign for 1000 years." It says Christ will reign alongside those destined for the first resurrection (for 1000 years). Christ will be reigning both before and after that period, I assure you.

So the conclusion is that the 1000 years are a long period when the gospel will flourish and be honoured by rulers, as well as the ruled. I have concluded that that period may now be drawing to a close, based on evidence of the increase in wickedness amongst men.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #125 on: April 20, 2021, 10:56:11 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply not very convincing seams to contradict other bible verses.

      1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

  Acts 1:9-11
And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, ?Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven

 1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come

    Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be.

       Matthew 24:42

?Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming

  John 14:3
If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also

     Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds

         


This is a few verses that speak of the return of Christ to this earth to turn mankind into what God intended them to be custodians of planet earth we have been given paradise and we have turned it into hell but God will reverse it.

Then we have some of the most wonderful verses in scripture which I nearly forgot

       For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth.  And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God,  whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me!
Job 19:25-‬27 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/job.19.25-27.ESV       


This clinches it for me on the last day my redeemer Jesus Christ will stand upon the earth and I shall see him with Job

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/59/job.19.25-27.ESV

Offline eik

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #126 on: April 21, 2021, 06:33:35 AM »
Hi eik
Thank you for your reply not very convincing seams to contradict other bible verses.

      1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

  Acts 1:9-11
And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, ?Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven

 1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come

    Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be.

       Matthew 24:42

?Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming

  John 14:3
If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also

     Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds

         


This is a few verses that speak of the return of Christ to this earth to turn mankind into what God intended them to be custodians of planet earth we have been given paradise and we have turned it into hell but God will reverse it.
Showing your credentials as a true JW, for JW alone believe in the repopulation of the earth:

Rather:  Isa 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

1Co 15:50  "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

1Co 15:15 "Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not."

If you don't believe the dead can rise to eternal life in heaven, then you don't believe God raised Christ up either.


Then we have some of the most wonderful verses in scripture which I nearly forgot

       For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth.  And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God,  whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me!
Job 19:25-‬27 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/job.19.25-27.ESV       


This clinches it for me on the last day my redeemer Jesus Christ will stand upon the earth and I shall see him with Job
At the return of Christ, the Christian will see these signs:

Luk 17:24 "For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day."

The only sight of Christ himself for the Christian lies in heaven:

Act 7:56 "And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."

And the return of Christ is to receive the harvest, not to re-populate the earth.

Matt 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers (i.e. the angels), Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

Mar 13:27 "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

Rev 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Mar 12:25 "For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."

2Pe 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

2Th 1:7 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

You are gravely mistaken in confounding the prophecy of the millennium with the second coming of Christ. I think that, linked with your JW theory of resurrection to repopulating the earth, puts your doctrine in a rather unique category, hardly in tune with Christianity as a corporative endeavour.

Watch out for this prophecy:

Acts 20:30 "Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. "

https://bible.com/bible/59/job.19.25-27.ESV

Offline davetaff

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Re: Murder,kill,destroy
« Reply #127 on: April 21, 2021, 01:23:10 PM »
Showing your credentials as a true JW, for JW alone believe in the repopulation of the earth:

I am not a jw never has been

Rather:  Isa 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

the new heavens and earth will be created after Christs thousand year reign when he hands everything back to the Father         

1Co 15:50  "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

this very true as Paul tells us we will all be changed       

1Co 15:15 "Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not."

that Christ has been raised up is not in dispute its a historical fact           

If you don't believe the dead can rise to eternal life in heaven, then you don't believe God raised Christ up either.
At the return of Christ, the Christian will see these signs:

Luk 17:24 "For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day."

that Gods word says this will happen then that's what will happen can't see what this has to do with the discussion         


The only sight of Christ himself for the Christian lies in heaven:

Act 7:56 "And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."

when these words were spoken thats where Christ was         

And the return of Christ is to receive the harvest, not to re-populate the earth.

Matt 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers (i.e. the angels), Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

so with this you agree that all those who are Christs will be gathered together to him as I have said this will happen at the beginning of his 1000 year reign

Mar 13:27 "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

again this will happen when he beginshis 1000 years reign
   


Rev 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

this will happen  at the end of Christs 1000 year reign when he hands everything back to the Father who will create the new heaven and earth       

Mar 12:25 "For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."

this will happen at the return of Christ to raise the dead  and as Paul tells us

     1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, View more

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed         
    I take it from this we will become spiritual being like the angels 


2Pe 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

I think this is speaking of the end of Christs 1000 year reign when satan is released with all those who belong to him           


2Th 1:7 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

again this is speaking of the start of Christs 1000 year reign           

You are gravely mistaken in confounding the prophecy of the millennium with the second coming of Christ. I think that, linked with your JW theory of resurrection to repopulating the earth, puts your doctrine in a rather unique category, hardly in tune with Christianity as a corporative endeavour.

how many times must I write this I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JW
I have never said we will inherit the world in the flesh it contradicts what Paul has to say           


Watch out for this prophecy:

Acts 20:30 "Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. "


thank you for the warning don't forget to take note yourself

Love and Peace
Dave       

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