Author Topic: Especially those who believe  (Read 1586 times)

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Offline strobe

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Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #88 on: February 15, 2021, 10:39:31 AM »

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Faith is a work of grace, and equally the work of man building on the foundation of grace, which is the foundation of salvation.
So you DO believe in salvation by works then. Why didn't you just say so?
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Offline eik

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Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2021, 01:59:28 PM »
Salvation by God's work certainly. And salvation is all about building on foundations, with the capstone or rock on which they are built being Christ or his grace, which are effectively synonymous in theological terms. 1 Co 10:4

1Co 3:10 "By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or stra, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person?s work."

You see the problem with universalists and their inclusivity doctrines is that they require them to say that the saved also include those not only who do no work, but have no foundation or base in faith, which is heresy.

Also, if you lay a foundation or expose the rock, then presumably it is with the purpose of building on it. If you don't build, you might find the weeds cover it over so that no-one knows it is there. cf. parable of the sower.

Offline strobe

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Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #90 on: February 15, 2021, 02:17:21 PM »
Salvation by God's work certainly.

What, only God's work or man's too?
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Offline eik

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Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #91 on: February 15, 2021, 02:27:57 PM »
What, only God's work or man's too?
I have adequately answered that question above. Check the bible passages I quoted. Check out the parable of the sower. All the answers are in these passages.

As Peter said, it's up to everyone to make their election sure 2 Pet 1:10.

My question to you: how can you do it without work?

Offline strobe

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Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #92 on: February 15, 2021, 03:20:14 PM »
I have adequately answered that question above. Check the bible passages I quoted. Check out the parable of the sower. All the answers are in these passages.

As Peter said, it's up to everyone to make their election sure 2 Pet 1:10.

My question to you: how can you do it without work?

No, you haven't answered the question adequately or otherwise. You've contradicted yourself from one post to the very next.
Is salvation by the grace of God alone or are the works of man also required?
Answer that and I will come back to yours and give you a straight answer to the best of my ability.
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline eik

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Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #93 on: February 15, 2021, 03:57:09 PM »
No, you haven't answered the question adequately or otherwise. You've contradicted yourself from one post to the very next.
Is salvation by the grace of God alone or are the works of man also required?
Answer that and I will come back to yours and give you a straight answer to the best of my ability.
That would be entirely contextual, depending whether you are the thief on the cross, who believed, died and went to paradise, or Simon Magus who believed, was baptized and ceased believing because he would not repent. As for repentance being a work, then clearly for the vast majority not nailed to the cross on belief, or on one's death bed, it will be required.

However as a minimum, it seems public confession is always required, otherwise Christ will disown you.

Offline strobe

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Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #94 on: February 15, 2021, 04:53:53 PM »
That would be entirely contextual, depending whether you are the thief on the cross, who believed, died and went to paradise, or Simon Magus who believed, was baptized and ceased believing because he would not repent. As for repentance being a work, then clearly for the vast majority not nailed to the cross on belief, or on one's death bed, it will be required.

However as a minimum, it seems public confession is always required, otherwise Christ will disown you.
Then I was right, you do indeed teach a works salvation, you are a heretic and an unbeliever and I urge you to put these unbiblical beliefs behind you, repent and believe the true gospel.
Now I will work on an answer to your question but off the top of my head I seem to think Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians dealt with this in detail, particularly chapters 12, 13 and 14.
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline eik

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Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #95 on: February 15, 2021, 05:55:22 PM »
Then I was right, you do indeed teach a works salvation, you are a heretic and an unbeliever and I urge you to put these unbiblical beliefs behind you, repent and believe the true gospel.
Now I will work on an answer to your question but off the top of my head I seem to think Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians dealt with this in detail, particularly chapters 12, 13 and 14.
You  condemn yourself by condemning the apostles who preached a gospel of both grace and works:

Actrs 17:30 "God commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him."

I see you are some kind of hyper-calvinist. Too bad. Calvin likely went to hell because he too would not repent of his pride and arrogance, and also his hyper-trinitarian nonsense copied from the errors of the so termed "church fathers."

I always knew you were just trying to "catch me out" Per Jhn 8:6 "They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him"

You guys are so transparent.

And 1Co 14:1 teaches works "Let love be your highest goal!" May be you should try it.

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