Author Topic: Especially those who believe  (Read 1584 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 245
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2021, 11:55:34 AM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
You've posted a link to the Unitarian Universalist church. I have never identified with them, been to one of their services, endorsed them or even mentioned them. So I don't see why I should even respond. If you want to challenge one I suggest you speak to one of them. I follow Jesus and I am speaking of my beliefs and can only respond to what I have written here. The video link I posted was an in response to a question, I did not start from there, it was convenient to do so. That's all. It doesn't mean I accept everything he ever says. Just that it answer one particular question. Are you trying to track down what sect or denomination I belong to? So far you've tried Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics and now Unitarian Universalists. You're wrong, wrong and wrong again although I expect that you could pick any one of them and there would be some things I agree with and some I disagree with.
I am uninterested in your denomination, and I am not a denominational sort of person myself, nor do I find them biblical. I only know personally of two denominations that "now" seem to unequivocally believe in universalism, i.e. JW and UU, although JW is suspect because I'm not sure if all JW believe that annihilation, which represents the state of death for them, is temporary for all men. UU also seem to have departed from what they used to believe, although UU doesn't represent all unitarians. The evolving nature of these denominations is inevitable with  their political dependencies. It is the politics of inclusivity that is pro-universalism.

Others such as Quakers have unfortunately departed from what passed for orthodoxy in the 17th century into all manner of weird beliefs that no longer conform to what they formerly held back then. I suspect the same is true of other liberal denominations. With so many denominations around it is difficult to keep track of them all.
 
It's not here a question of me being wrong. I was putting forward a point based in fact, which fact is not my belief as to your denomination, which I agree is irrelevant, but that "belief" (or should it rather be opinion) in universal salvation as distinct from universal reconciliation is not necessarily empirically consistent with faith in Christ's words, whom himself didn't teach universal salvation of all men (cf sheep and the goats).

In other words, what I am saying is that empirically speaking, universalism is a very dangerous opinion to hold, if one wishes to retain one's genuine faith in Christ as the son of God cf. UU and JW etc.

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Offline eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 245
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2021, 12:04:46 PM »
So if salvation is by grace what exactly are the works you think are necessary?
As you yourself quoted John 6:29. Check out also, 1 Cor 3;15. It is not for one believer to lecture another as to what "good works" God would have him do. That is between each person and God. Sometimes good works is just growing in the knowledge of God as one goes about one's everyday activity.

Offline eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 245
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2021, 12:07:09 PM »
Faith is a work OF GOD in us. This is NOT the same as grace.
Faith is consequential on grace, but equally humans must work to retain their faith (cf. parable of the sower and Jesus' many other parables on faith).

Online strobe

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 100
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2021, 12:53:33 PM »
Fantastic! So we've come to at least a bit of agreement, faith is a work of God.
Can we also agree that we are called to believe in Jesus in order to be saved? Acts 16:31 and Romans 6:23
To save time I will take it your answer will be positive.
And can we also agree that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?
And can we then agree that in order to bend our knee and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, we have to believe in Him?
Putting those last two agreements together wouldn't it mean that everyone will eventually come to believe in Jesus?
And then putting them all together doesn't that mean that everyone will be saved?
If not, please get back to me where you disagree.
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 245
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2021, 03:07:45 PM »
Fantastic! So we've come to at least a bit of agreement, faith is a work of God.
Can we also agree that we are called to believe in Jesus in order to be saved? Acts 16:31 and Romans 6:23
To save time I will take it your answer will be positive.
And can we also agree that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?
And can we then agree that in order to bend our knee and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, we have to believe in Him?
Putting those last two agreements together wouldn't it mean that everyone will eventually come to believe in Jesus?
And then putting them all together doesn't that mean that everyone will be saved?
If not, please get back to me where you disagree.
One has to distinguish between what God desires on earth, i.e. what he had provided for in Christ, which is that none are excluded from reconciliation or the offer of salavation, which means that "many are called", and what will happen consequential to the spread of the gospel, and what will happen when Christ returns and faith is replaced by sight on the day of judgement.

Phil 2:10 is the intention of God through Christ, i.e. the universal preaching of the gospel. Yet bear in mind Heb 2:8 We do not see everything subject to Christ. And that Heb 2:8 has been going on for 2000 years.

It is only at the judgement seat of Christ that the Roms 14:11 prophecy will be fulfilled in everyone, as Roms 14:10 makes clear.





Online strobe

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 100
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2021, 04:04:41 PM »
One has to distinguish between what God desires on earth, i.e. what he had provided for in Christ, which is that none are excluded from reconciliation or the offer of salavation, which means that "many are called", and what will happen consequential to the spread of the gospel, and what will happen when Christ returns and faith is replaced by sight on the day of judgement.

Phil 2:10 is the intention of God through Christ, i.e. the universal preaching of the gospel. Yet bear in mind Heb 2:8 We do not see everything subject to Christ. And that Heb 2:8 has been going on for 2000 years.

It is only at the judgement seat of Christ that the Roms 14:11 prophecy will be fulfilled in everyone, as Roms 14:10 makes clear.
It's very simple, sir.
I see you want to go off on a wild goose chase but I need you to tell me where you disagree so I can respond to that.
The gospel, in my view, is that simple. You may think you're wise and maybe you are but idiots like me can understand it too.
What have I said that is wrong?
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline eik

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 245
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2021, 05:09:55 PM »
It's very simple, sir.
I see you want to go off on a wild goose chase but I need you to tell me where you disagree so I can respond to that.
The gospel, in my view, is that simple. You may think you're wise and maybe you are but idiots like me can understand it too.
What have I said that is wrong?
I'm sorry that you don't find that I've already answered you're question.

Belief in God is something that even the devil aspires to.  James 2:19.

Belief in God on the day of judgement will be by all men, when his power becomes incontrovertible. Then every tongue will confess....

Belief in the human Jesus as the son of God will never be universal, and is reserved only for the saved. In this life every tongue will not confess....



Online strobe

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 100
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Especially those who believe
« Reply #79 on: February 14, 2021, 05:38:09 PM »
Belief in the human Jesus as the son of God will never be universal, and is reserved only for the saved. In this life every tongue will not confess....
Wait a minute! Are you saying that we need to be saved first before we believe?
That's totally round the wrong way!
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE saved
WILL BE ... that's in the future
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal