Author Topic: Man in the image of God / day of rest / millennial reign of Christ on earth?  (Read 14271 times)

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Offline eik

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davetaff said this:

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Christ and the Church his body are separated but they will be united at his coming which will be three days after his ascension that is days 1000 years long.
.
We are told in scripture that with the Lord a day is a 1000 years my contention is when God destroyed the earth in the flood he began a new creation with Noah and everything that was on the ark the onlything missing was man in Gods image.
So God began a new creation based on the creation account in Genesis the last thing God creates is man in his image which is Jesus Christ at his second coming to be united with his bride the church which is his body this is man in the image of God.
So this creation will take in total 7 days 1000 years long 4 days from Noah to the first advent of Christ 2 days to complete the creation of man In the image of God and the 7th day the millennial reign of Christ and the sabbath day of rest for the Father when he hands everything over to Christ to finish the creation.
My critique:

(a) To say that a day is like a 1000 years is not the same thing as saying "one day = one thousand years." I can't see that there is a credible scriptural case for making this out.

(b) davetaff said "when God destroyed the earth in the flood he began a new creation with Noah and everything that was on the ark the only thing missing was man in Gods image." I can't see that there is any biblical authority for assuming that just because man has sinned he ceased being in God's image.

(c) davetaff said "So God began a new creation based on the creation account in Genesis the last thing God creates is man in his image which is Jesus Christ at his second coming to be united with his bride the church which is his body this is man in the image of God."

This seems to contradict Hebrews 2:

Heb 2:16 "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."

Heb 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

(d)davetaff said "the 7th day the millennial reign of Christ and the sabbath day of rest for the Father when he hands everything over to Christ to finish the creation."

My issues: God's sabbath day of rest is "today" Heb 4:3-4:10.

God has already entered his own rest: Heb 4:10.

From Heb 4:6 it is learned that believers enter God's rest provided that they obey, which is "today" (Heb 3).

The only reason that those to whom God speaks do not enter his rest is because of disobedience: Heb 4:6 "Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience."

In short my assessmment is that to put off the "day of rest" of mankind to some hypothetical "millennial reign of Christ on earth," which incidentally is nowhere spoken of in scripture directly, is to not understand that the day of God's rest for believers is declared to be "today" for all those who hear God's voice and obey it.





Online davetaff

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davetaff said this:

Hi eik
thank you for the thread will do my best to answer     


My critique:

(a) To say that a day is like a 1000 years is not the same thing as saying "one day = one thousand years." I can't see that there is a credible scriptural case for making this out.

But we have definite scripture which say with God a day is as a thousand years     

2Pe_3:8  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.     

as we can see Peter says one day is a thousand years and the way he has worded it seams to me very important       

(b) davetaff said "when God destroyed the earth in the flood he began a new creation with Noah and everything that was on the ark the only thing missing was man in Gods image." I can't see that there is any biblical authority for assuming that just because man has sinned he ceased being in God's image.

what we do know is that the man God created in his image Adam died before the flood as stated in Scripture  he was spoiled by the angles that came down from heaven so the Man became something God had not intended hence the flood.
of course this also raises the question what Dose man in the image of God look like we have two examples the first is Israel Moses was the Head Aaron was the high priest and the tribe of Levi was the priesthood the other 11 tribes were the Children this is Man ( mankind) in the image of God and at his second coming Christ will look the same the only difference being he will be both Head and High priest and all those who have been chose throughout scripture will be the priest hood     



(c) davetaff said "So God began a new creation based on the creation account in Genesis the last thing God creates is man in his image which is Jesus Christ at his second coming to be united with his bride the church which is his body this is man in the image of God."

This seems to contradict Hebrews 2:

Heb 2:16 "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."

Heb 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."


  Heb 2:16  For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 
Heb 2:17  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.     


That Christ came into the world as a man I am not denying  he came into the world as a man and became a high priest he fulfils everything said about him in Hebrews and the rest of scripture for that matter       

(d)davetaff said "the 7th day the millennial reign of Christ and the sabbath day of rest for the Father when he hands everything over to Christ to finish the creation."

My issues: God's sabbath day of rest is "today" Heb 4:3-4:10.

Heb 4:3  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 
Heb 4:4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.        


As we see from the above Gods works were finished from the foundation of the world this includes his sabbath rest its there waiting for us to enter and we can enter today today being when we enter the Body of Christ we enter into Gods sabbath rest. 

Heb 4:10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.           so if Gods sabbath rest is a future event it means that creation is still on going   




God has already entered his own rest: Heb 4:10.

From Heb 4:6 it is learned that believers enter God's rest provided that they obey, which is "today" (Heb 3).

The only reason that those to whom God speaks do not enter his rest is because of disobedience: Heb 4:6 "Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience."

when these scriptures were written 2000 years ago they were written for all those who would believe and for all those who will believe in the future and for them when they believe it will be today     

In short my assessmment is that to put off the "day of rest" of mankind to some hypothetical "millennial reign of Christ on earth," which incidentally is nowhere spoken of in scripture directly, is to not understand that the day of God's rest for believers is declared to be "today" for all those who hear God's voice and obey it.

Rev_20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev_20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev_20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand y aboveears were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev_20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
      [/color

As we can see from the above Christ will defiantly reign here on earth for a 1000 years so let us do all that we can to be in the first resurrection and be part of his millennial reign

Love and Peace
Dave         





Offline eik

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Hi Dave

(a) You said

Quote
as we can see Peter says one day is a thousand years and the way he has worded it seams to me very important....

My reply: The Greek uses hōs meaning "as, like, even as, etc."

The transliteration is "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day"

I would take this to mean exactly the opposite of how you read it. It is implying that God doesn't measure time by earth days and years.

(b) You said:

Quote
When God destroyed the earth in the flood he began a new creation with Noah and everything that was on the ark the only thing missing was man in Gods image." I can't see that there is any biblical authority for assuming that just because man has sinned he ceased being in God's image.
.
what we do know is that the man God created in his image Adam died before the flood as stated in Scripture  he was spoiled by the angles that came down from heaven so the Man became something God had not intended hence the flood.
.
of course this also raises the question what Dose man in the image of God look like we have two examples the first is Israel Moses was the Head Aaron was the high priest and the tribe of Levi was the priesthood the other 11 tribes were the Children this is Man ( mankind) in the image of God and at his second coming Christ will look the same the only difference being he will be both Head and High priest and all those who have been chose throughout scripture will be the priest hood.

My reply: God must have intended the fall, although he wasn't an active participant in it as he knows all things.  I agree man became despoiled of his virtue, knowing good and evil, but in point of fact this would make him more like God, due to knowing good and evil.

Gen 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil"

(c) You said:

Quote
So God began a new creation based on the creation account in Genesis the last thing God creates is man in his image which is Jesus Christ at his second coming to be united with his bride the church which is his body this is man in the image of God.
.
That Christ came into the world as a man I am not denying  he came into the world as a man and became a high priest he fulfils everything said about him in Hebrews and the rest of scripture for that matter.
     

Ok, so we agree Christ is the originator of a new spiritual creation superimposed on the top of what is already there.

(d) You said:

Quote
"the 7th day the millennial reign of Christ and the sabbath day of rest for the Father when he hands everything over to Christ to finish the creation."

Rev_20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev_20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev_20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand y aboveears were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev_20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
      [/color

As we can see from the above Christ will defiantly reign here on earth for a 1000 years so let us do all that we can to be in the first resurrection and be part of his millennial reign

My reply: Is there any logical reason to discount Christ reigning from heaven during the millennium? Is there any reason to suggest that the church triumphant is not to be identified with the saints reigning with Christ? is there any reason to suggest that the "binding of Satan" infers the destruction of Satan? It doesn't mean to say that sin will be eradicated: it means that his kingdom of lies, or pagan idolatry, will fall to be replaced by Christ, which is what we've seen throughout history, where nations have been ruled by Christian and church influences.

What is the biblical reason for positing that Christ will be on earth again, a second time? He will descend from heaven, but as per Luk 17:24, "for as the lightning that is lightening out of the one part under heaven, to the other part under heaven doth shine, so shall be also the Son of Man in his day;"

That doesn't suggest a millennial reign on earth but the end of the world and the destruction of the wicked left on the earth.

Luk 17:36 "two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left."

Mat 24:30
?Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31
"And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."


Online davetaff

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply some good points made.
You said.

Quote
   My reply: The Greek uses hōs meaning "as, like, even as, etc."

The transliteration is "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day"

I would take this to mean exactly the opposite of how you read it. It is implying that God doesn't measure time by earth days and years     

Sorry I don't do Greek Hebrew or any other ancient languages I like to stick to KJV as I believe the God who loves us wants us to know who he is and what he has done what he is doing and what he will do in the future and he has given us books in many different languages for that purpose.
I don't think we should change the words of scripture to suit our theology.
I don't believe the God who loves us would want us to spend our lives learning ancient languages to be able to understand what he wants us to know.
If the bible say a day is a thousand years long with God then it is.

Quote
         My reply: God must have intended the fall, although he wasn't an active participant in it as he knows all things.  I agree man became despoiled of his virtue, knowing good and evil, but in point of fact this would make him more like God, due to knowing good and evil.

Gen 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil     

I agree evil has to exist because we must be able the choose the good Love of our own free will it has to be a freewill gift from the heart God cannot force us to love him it would not de love we would be robot's.

Quote
       
Ok, so we agree Christ is the originator of a new spiritual creation superimposed on the top of what is already there   

Nice to be able to agree my contentions is that christ is the end of creation at his second comming this is supported in these words from our Lord.

    But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
John 5:17 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.5.17.KJV         


So if the Father is still working then his Sabbath rest is still future.

Quote
       My reply: Is there any logical reason to discount Christ reigning from heaven during the millennium? Is there any reason to suggest that the church triumphant is not to be identified with the saints reigning with Christ? is there any reason to suggest that the "binding of Satan" infers the destruction of Satan? It doesn't mean to say that sin will be eradicated: it means that his kingdom of lies, or pagan idolatry, will fall to be replaced by Christ, which is what we've seen throughout history, where nations have been ruled by Christian and church influences.

What is the biblical reason for positing that Christ will be on earth again, a second time? He will descend from heaven, but as per Luk 17:24, "for as the lightning that is lightening out of the one part under heaven, to the other part under heaven doth shine, so shall be also the Son of Man in his day;"

That doesn't suggest a millennial reign on earth but the end of the world and the destruction of the wicked left on the earth       
.

I believe that Christ will reign here on earth for a thousand years as the scriptures state.

    and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.   

        Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years


And I also believe that Christs millennial reign will be the last day of this creation that began with Noah.

Love and Peace
Dave

   


https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.5.17.KJV

Offline eik

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply some good points made.
You said.

Sorry I don't do Greek Hebrew or any other ancient languages I like to stick to KJV as I believe the God who loves us wants us to know who he is and what he has done what he is doing and what he will do in the future and he has given us books in many different languages for that purpose.
Although I've nothing against the KJV, for it is in some cases one of the best translations, one needs to be able to recognize that there are some obvious errors and biases to it. Using tools like parallel interlinear  translations and Greek concordances and other English translations can also be useful.


I don't think we should change the words of scripture to suit our theology.
I don't believe the God who loves us would want us to spend our lives learning ancient languages to be able to understand what he wants us to know.
If the bible say a day is a thousand years long with God then it is.
The bible does not say that, it uses the word "as" I already mentioned. It also says at the same time that a day is "as" a thousand years. It is making comparisons about how God views time, as contrasted with man. Nowhere did the Jews, to whom God gave the word, ever prophetically interpret one day to mean 1000 years. If you can show otherwise, fine; but a golden rule is not stretch things beyond what the Jews themselves understood. For Gentiles are not above the Jews when it comes to exegesis.

In stretching words beyond their natural and obvious meaning all kinds of false doctrines can arise; and it is absolutely undeniable that the churches have been beset by false doctrines throughout the whole of human history.


I agree evil has to exist because we must be able the choose the good Love of our own free will it has to be
a freewill gift from the heart God cannot force us to love him it would not de love we would be robot's.
Nice to be able to agree my contentions is that christ is the end of creation at his second comming this is supported in these words from our Lord.

    But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
John 5:17 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.5.17.KJV         


So if the Father is still working then his Sabbath rest is still future.

No. the Father has already entered into his rest. Now he has a different sort of work: salvific work.  The rest of God from his creative work is clearly prophetic as to mankind entering into God's rest after mankind's own labours, per Hebrews. What is that labour? The work of God is to believe in Christ. John 6:29. The salvific work of God is a Sabbath labour separate from his creative work. It is also a work for those who would and have entered God's rest.

Hebrews 4 makes it clear that the criteria for entering the prophetic rest of God is obedience to faith. It doesn't however mean that salvific work is discontinued, nor does it mean that God's rest awaits some future millennium.

I believe that Christ will reign here on earth for a thousand years as the scriptures state.

    and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.   

        Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years


And I also believe that Christs millennial reign will be the last day of this creation that began with Noah.
There is absolutely no biblical support for God reigning on earth in a personified form. The theme of the whole bible is that God reigns from heaven in numerous passages, which you can look up, e.g. Ps 146:10.

Indeed the very concept of "reigning" is associated with heaven and not earth. Earthly kings only rule with heaven's consent.

I am well aware of the extremist chiliast doctrine that portrays Christ ruling on earth in person, but after much study I have totally rejected this doctrine as utter fabrication, an invention of man that is not found in the bible.
 
https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.5.17.KJV

Online davetaff

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said.

Quote
  Although I've nothing against the KJV, for it is in some cases one of the best translations, one needs to be able to recognize that there are some obvious errors and biases to it. Using tools like parallel interlinear  translations and Greek concordances and other English translations can also be useful             

So what you are saying is I have to be totally reliant on academics to know what God means and there is no point in me reading the bible because it's flawed.

Quote
  The bible does not say that, it uses the word "as" I already mentioned. It also says at the same time that a day is "as" a thousand years. It is making comparisons about how God views time, as contrasted with man. Nowhere did the Jews, to whom God gave the word, ever prophetically interpret one day to mean 1000 years. If you can show otherwise, fine; but a golden rule is not stretch things beyond what the Jews themselves understood. For Gentiles are not above the Jews when it comes to exegesis.

In stretching words beyond their natural and obvious meaning all kinds of false doctrines can arise; and it is absolutely undeniable that the churches have been beset by false doctrines throughout the whole of human history         

   But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/2pe.3.8.KJV       


One day is with the Lord as a thousand years seams pretty strait forward to me a day with God is a thousand years we also have.

      For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Psalms 90:4 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/psa.90.4.KJV     


Which means the same thing God views a day as being a thousand years it seams to me that Peter thought this was important information that we should not be ignorant of.
So my contention is the 7 days of creation will be 7000 years which began with Noah and will end with Christs million reign here on earth.

    Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband         

The bride is the Church the husband is Christ and they will be united and become one.

     Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh   

Christ is the last Adam the church is his Eve his father and mother is Israel

Quote
   No. the Father has already entered into his rest. Now he has a different sort of work: salvific work.  The rest of God from his creative work is clearly prophetic as to mankind entering into God's rest after mankind's own labours, per Hebrews. What is that labour? The work of God is to believe in Christ. John 6:29. The salvific work of God is a Sabbath labour separate from his creative work. It is also a work for those who would and have entered God's rest.

Hebrews 4 makes it clear that the criteria for entering the prophetic rest of God is obedience to faith. It doesn't however mean that salvific work is discontinued, nor does it mean that God's rest awaits some future millennium           

In Genesis we are told that God rested on the seventh day but nowhere in scripture are we told that God the Father began work again until we read in revelations that he will create a new heaven and new earth which can only mean he has bean working all the time as supported by the words of our Lord.

         17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (Compare)

 18  Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

 19  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise       


Here our Lord makes it as plain as possible  that the Father was working up to the time he said this and there is nothing in scripture to say the Father has rested since.
In verse 19 we see that Christ could only do what he saw the Father doing which can only mean the Father was working.
It dose not matter what kind of work the Father is doing if he is working he is not resting.

       Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world   

As we can see when God spoke the creation account in genesis it was a done deal everything would work out according to his will as far as God was concerned it was finished as far as were concerned  it would take 7000 years from the time of Noah.

Quote
    There is absolutely no biblical support for God reigning on earth in a personified form. The theme of the whole bible is that God reigns from heaven in numerous passages, which you can look up, e.g. Ps 146:10.

Indeed the very concept of "reigning" is associated with heaven and not earth. Earthly kings only rule with heaven's consent.

I am well aware of the extremist chiliast doctrine that portrays Christ ruling on earth in person, but after much study I have totally rejected this doctrine as utter fabrication, an invention of man that is not found in the bible           

I have never said God the Father would reign on earth what I did say was Christ would reign  here on earth with his bride the Church and don't think it will be a bed of roses.

   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:15 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.19.15.KJV         


      Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband   

The new Jerusalem is Christ and his bride united and they are coming down this can only mean coming down to earth.

Love and Peace
Dave



https://bible.com/bible/1/2pe.3.8.KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/psa.90.4.KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.19.15.KJV

Offline eik

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply you said.

So what you are saying is I have to be totally reliant on academics to know what God means and there is no point in me reading the bible because it's flawed.

   But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/2pe.3.8.KJV       


One day is with the Lord as a thousand years seams pretty strait forward to me a day with God is a thousand years we also have.

      For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Psalms 90:4 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/psa.90.4.KJV     


Which means the same thing God views a day as being a thousand years it seams to me that Peter thought this was important information that we should not be ignorant of.
So my contention is the 7 days of creation will be 7000 years which began with Noah and will end with Christs million reign here on earth.
Thank you for your response. First I think we have to acknowledge our debt to academics, without which we would not have any bible at all. The KJV was the work of academics. Academics are in a continual search for truth (at least some of them). You might like to check out Rohl (e.g. The Lost Testament: From Eden to Exile) whom has lately discovered a lot of things about the OT that were previously unknown, including especially the bewildering names used in the OT, which he has mapped onto various archaeologically proven pharoahs and ancient personalities, to bring parts of the OT vividly to life.

Second it strikes me that this theology of which you speak is contrived. The plain sense is obvious: that God lives outside of man's temporal dominion. The specific application to prophecy is tendentious, for it has no internal authority from the bible itself. It surely derives secondhand from some esoteric position taken by those to whom you have particular empathy with. May be you would care to enlighten us as to which likeminded theologians inspire you?

The problem with everything you have said is there is nothing in the bible, in terms of evidence or prophecy fulfilled, that authorizes you to transpose "one day is as a thousand years" into prophecy. We don't have to see absolutely everything in the OT as prophetic, although quite a lot of it may be. But too much speculative prophecy can lead to a super abundance of false gnosis that can lead quickly to gnosticism, i.e. a reliance on so termed knowledge displacing faith. Here the transpositions being entertained to derive novel "prophecies"  are more a source of controversy and distinguishing one believer from another, than are seen as required for faith. If they are not necessary, why promote them? Did Christ or the apostles see the "one day is a thousand years" idea as prophetic or necessary for making sense of the times?

For the premise of your argument, that "God began a new creation with Noah" has no biblical basis. Noah denotes the judgement of the wicked, and is prophetic of the judgement of the wicked in the last day. There was no "new creation" but there was a new covenant, a covenant not to always visit the wrath of God on the wicked until the last day. That is the key thing.

    Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband         

The bride is the Church the husband is Christ and they will be united and become one.

     Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh   

Christ is the last Adam the church is his Eve his father and mother is Israel

In Genesis we are told that God rested on the seventh day but nowhere in scripture are we told that God the Father began work again until we read in revelations that he will create a new heaven and new earth which can only mean he has bean working all the time as supported by the words of our Lord.

         17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (Compare)

 18  Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

 19  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise       


Here our Lord makes it as plain as possible  that the Father was working up to the time he said this and there is nothing in scripture to say the Father has rested since.
In verse 19 we see that Christ could only do what he saw the Father doing which can only mean the Father was working.
It dose not matter what kind of work the Father is doing if he is working he is not resting.

       Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world   

As we can see when God spoke the creation account in genesis it was a done deal everything would work out according to his will as far as God was concerned it was finished as far as were concerned  it would take 7000 years from the time of Noah.
I accept a lot of what you say but my point is this: the times of the end are given to no man to know (even Christ didn't know them). If it was so obvious, why didn't Christ reveal it? Moreover it doesn't say God rested "to do nothing."  It says God rested "from his work" which contextually means his creating work. Even our everyday experiences suggests that humans can never simply do nothing on the Sabbath. They don't spend the entire day in bed. There will always be activity on the Sabbath, the day of rest, even salvific work, as God himself does salvific work on his day of rest. Even in God's rest there will be activity. You have stretched the concept of God's rest to a point of absurdity, to define that God must literally be inactive on his day of rest. I don't accept it and nothing in the bible suggests it.

Even by your own theory the millennium will involve God reigning over the earth, which is not rest, as you have pointed out. The rest of God I therefore take to have specific application to his own work of creation. It is also prophetic, because scripture has so interpreted it, of man being entitled to enter God's rest, provided that his work is "good," as was the work of God.


I have never said God the Father would reign on earth what I did say was Christ would reign  here on earth with his bride the Church and don't think it will be a bed of roses.

   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:15 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.19.15.KJV         


      Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband   

The new Jerusalem is Christ and his bride united and they are coming down this can only mean coming down to earth.

Love and Peace
Dave
Not necessarily to "earth" because there are billions of stars in the universe. More especially 1 Cor 2:9 "What no eye has seen, and no ear has heard, and has not entered into heart of man, what God has prepared for those loving Him."

Secondly Christ is God. You yourself said the Father will not come down to earth. Neither will anything in the form of God which sits on the throne of God reappear again on earth to do anything but instate judgement. "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Pet 3:7.

Christ will appear to take away the church and institute judgement on the wicked.

https://bible.com/bible/1/2pe.3.8.KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/psa.90.4.KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.19.15.KJV

Online davetaff

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Hi eik
Thank you for your reply as for academics and the translation of scripture it is my belief that an academic held the pen but God through the Spirit dictated what he wrote.
As for books written by them and theologians in general I have read quite a few I have about 30 to 40 on my kindle and they all seam to be saying different things there dose not seam to be any concensus of opinion and much of what they say I do not understand due to my lack of education.
The one day I woke up and put all these books to one side and said  to myself how dose Gods word speak to me so I sat down opened my bible and read it from cover to cover and have never looked back what I write on here is how Gods word speaks to me.
And basically what it says to me is the whole of scripture and the history of man kind are all wrapped up in th creation account in Genesis and creation is ongoing.

As for a new creation starting with Noah I am not talking about the creation of everything everything God needed was on the ark the only thing missing was man in the image of God and Noah was not it.
Noah and everything that was on the ark was for the repopulation of the earth when there were enough people God began the creation of man in his image with Abraham which eventually ended up with Israel Israel is man ( mankind ) in the image of God.
Its interesting That Christ follows the same path as Israel we also have the scripture " out of Egypt I called my son " which makes Israel and Christ Gods son and as such they are created in his likeness another interesting point is if this is true then they can be seen as brothers which bringe the story of Cain and able to the for the older brother kills the younger.
The only problem with all this is its far to simple anyone can understand it so if you believe God created man in 6 days then this is perfectly correct its a done deal and will be realised in Christ Jesus at his coming.

You are quite right nobody knows when the end will come only the Father but if what I say right then we are towards the end of the 6th day but its impossible to be precise but I think its always best to believe it will be today.

As for the Sabbath day I think to give a day to the Lord is a good thing it dose not to be a Sunday any day will do.

As for the millennium reign of Christ this is God the Fathers Sabbath rest he leaves everything over to Christ to finish the creation.
This is Gods Sabbath rest we can enter into it is a future event as is made clear in scripture.

       Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world   

Quote
     Not necessarily to "earth" because there are billions of stars in the universe. More especially 1 Cor 2:9 "What no eye has seen, and no ear has heard, and has not entered into heart of man, what God has prepared for those loving Him."

Secondly Christ is God. You yourself said the Father will not come down to earth. Neither will anything in the form of God which sits on the throne of God reappear again on earth to do anything but instate judgement. "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Pet 3:7       

I think you are forgetting why man in Gods image is created.

    Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth     

We are created to take care of this wonderful planet that God has created for us.

As for God the Father and Jesus Christ the Father is the Father and Christ is his son the Holy Spirit flows from the Father through the son and the body of believers.

And Christ will reign here on earth for 1000 years according to scripture

      Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years       

Love and Peace
Dave




 

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