Author Topic: "If we say that we have no sin" is addressing people who are not born again  (Read 272 times)

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Offline John

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" But if you read the whole chapter it becomes evident, that he is talking to people who have not been born again yet. Why else would he say a few lines before: :

Please do read the chapter etc it clearly is intended for Christians.

Usually those who deny this want to promote the false teaching that Christians do not sin.

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Offline JesusIsTheWay

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Paul is describing his  own dilemna. in Romans 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

So when you were "born again" did you know scripture ?  ...

Who  influenced you in your life  ?

I think it was more the other way around. I saw that what is written in the Bible applies to my life after being born again.

And again. Paul never believed that he had a struggle in Romans 7. He just described how people are who are not born again yet. That becomes very clear if you also read the end of Romans 6 where he says that he has to talk to them after the manner of men because of the infirmity of their flesh (Romans 6:19). In Romans 7 he is actually talking to people who already know the law (Romans 7:1). And he describes that because of the flesh it can be a struggle to keep the law. BUT: in Romans 8 he says what the solution to this is. To be born again. If you are born again and receive the Spirit of God, you turn away from your old sinful nature. He says that the Children of God life according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you must die. That is what he says!

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. - Romans 8:12-14

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. - Romans 8:5-8

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9


If you read Romans 8 there is really no doubt what so ever that Paul did not have any struggle to stop sinning. And whoever is born of God should also not have it. That is what he says very clearly. He even said repeatedly that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. - 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galatians 5:19-21

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. - Ephesians 5:5-7

I know very well that people like to twist Paul's words around to justify that it is alright to continue sinning. But that is simply not true. It's always important to read everything and not to just rip several verses out of context. Jesus has truly set us free from sin. With the help of the Holy Spirit, nobody has to continue sinning if he really doesn't want to.

Offline TJ's

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Yeah good topic and argument..

Quote
I know very well that people like to twist Paul's words around to justify that it is alright to continue sinning. But that is simply not true. It's always important to read everything and not to just rip several verses out of context. Jesus has truly set us free from sin. With the help of the Holy Spirit, nobody has to continue sinning if he really doesn't want to
.

So you - by your own admission - you have sinned once or maybe twice as a born again person !


How is that different to the average "born  again?


Offline davetaff

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Hi
Maybe it would be worthwhile looking at this from another angle we all know what sin is it's breaking the law by thought word and deed so what we need to concentrate on is how can we not break the law.
Of course our Lord tells us how to do it.

  30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

 31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these       


If we comply with these commands  we will not break any of Gods law so should we concentrate on these words from the lips of our Lord.
So we know what sin is and we know the cure so lets concentrate on the cure to Love in thought word and deed love is the answer to all the problems of the world God is LOVE

Love and peace
Dave

Offline John

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" we will not break any of Gods law so should we concentrate on these words from the lips of our Lord. "
And if we read 1 john1:8 if we claim we have no sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Note those who believe they have no sin they are recieving themselves.

What is worse those people do not know what the truth/Jesus.

Think about it .

Offline davetaff

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" we will not break any of Gods law so should we concentrate on these words from the lips of our Lord. "
And if we read 1 john1:8 if we claim we have no sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Note those who believe they have no sin they are recieving themselves.

What is worse those people do not know what the truth/Jesus.

Think about it .

Hi John
Thank you for your reply but if you are going to quote what I say quote the whole sentence which is.
Quote
       If we comply with these commands  we will not break any of Gods law so should we concentrate on these words from the lips of our Lord     

The commands quoted in the above post I have never said we don't  sin what I am saying is if we comply with the laws of Love we will not sin so if we Love God Love our neighbours and Love our enemies we will not sin.
That very easy to say but almost impossible to do but when we do fall and sin we have forgiveness through the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ
.
But we should not willfully sin knowing we have forgiveness we must always do our very best to show our fellow man friends and foes alike our Love and be prepared to forgive and offer the hand of friendship.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline eik

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If you read Romans 8 there is really no doubt what so ever that Paul did not have any struggle to stop sinning. And whoever is born of God should also not have it. That is what he says very clearly. He even said repeatedly that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God:
I'm not sure I agree with you. Paul in Roms 8 is contrasting justification by faith and justification by law. What he is saying is that the former is far easier than the latter, and it includes the mind of Christ, the Spirit of Christ, the justification, the hope and the promises.

A key verse is Rom 8:13 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

It's not all plain sailing, clearly. 1Co 9:27 shows that Paul did find it sometimes an uphill struggle to keep his body under submission, especially for one seeking to attain such a state of perfection as he desired in his own life. See also Bunyan's pilgrim's progress.

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