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Offline melliff

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Sin
« on: December 29, 2020, 01:46:54 PM »

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Why did God create mankind with a propensity to sin?  Before anyone answers "free will", we do not have unlimited free will - it is constrained by the way God created us.  For instance, we cannot read other people's minds or see into the future, much as we would like to.  So if we are constrained in some areas, why not did God constrain us a little bit further by removing the possibility of sin?  We would still have free will in all other areas.

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Offline TJ's

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Re: Sin
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2020, 12:51:01 AM »
Why did God create mankind with a propensity to sin?  Before anyone answers "free will", we do not have unlimited free will - it is constrained by the way God created us.  For instance, we cannot read other people's minds or see into the future, much as we would like to.  So if we are constrained in some areas, why not did God constrain us a little bit further by removing the possibility of sin?  We would still have free will in all other areas.

Good question - hence I will answer - just to kick off - as I do not want to ruin it for others

Because it goes back further than the Father creating flesh and restraining  and allowing  eg: Proverbs 8:29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress [violate/ pass over/  transgress/ ]  His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;   -   [waters being the peoples of the earth and the limits that bind them]

Have you ever felt frustrated ? this is the law set - that you work and live within.. [you have no chose here - but to work within these limits  - hence frustration... [ have you ever felt that you want to be God [ well many are and continue to be - working in these contraints]

God also can also forgive and forget - most people never forget - if they did. they would allow the same sin's against them again and again and would never learn - you only learn by forgivng - but not forgetting ...




Sin began in heaven where God was where  a third of angels were thrown down with satan [like a wave]  hence Revelation 12:12  etc..

Hence the sin of Adam and Eve =- hence, Jesus Christ and the second / aternative/  plan - so once we sin or being sinners - we might be saved [not through our kowledge of scripture or through our theology or perfect living . [image] - or religion / belief / ...

[This does not mean that God did not know  what happen - but that He foresaw and even in Genesis "appeared  to save Adam and Eve" of course the shedding of  animal blood  was never enough] - it's just another metaphor / symbol/ example.

Even if Adam and Eve were never saved - [it does not mean that they wre unable to produce offspring] who might be or may not be saved  [ hence Cain and Able -


 I'm afraid relationship is a complex thing / more than just love, more than just friendship/ even more than action / or what you might get back in return..

Love is action - but God may chose not to act [that's another story]

Why does God chose people who have no knowledge of Him or scriptural knowledge of Him [that's another story]

[Why did God allow sin in heaven - where He is  -is yet another story]

Quite why God "has an upside down Kingdom" where everything is opposite is another .

 [just because people have the means and the time] does not mean they/you/people/ are saved by their works or belief  -[  Bob Geldolph / saved millions from starvation - because he could and he had the means to do so.. [Christ -in or not]

Don' be deceived by this kind of thing  [as I have been thoughout my Christian life] - but bring it to the Light of Christ]

Most of God's /Christ's working remain unseen and are not working to seek applause or praise [ but are working -within the upside  Kingdom - a place where God works and His people hide - without being seen.




Through this ordinary men / fishermen - up to bankers / anyone of  social standing - in the climbing of a  social ladder[eg: Paul being a pharisee and knowing scripture and being in a religious order or not  /could be saved] without any prior knowledge - eg; [not knowing what they were geting into / with no previous knowledge ../ being completley dependent on / as a new born babe...

Were  through Christ being/ becoming/  the Aroma and outgoing prescence to others / not being of us/them/  - but of Christ. without the person even knowing what affect they are having..




The next question is "why did God allow sin in heaven" and why did He / God cast down satan to His footstool [crushing / allowing satan to be  "under His feet?] - but not our's..[hence beware earth]

Why not cast satan down / elsewhere / were satan would  have no power in / on /within/ an empty planet....?


Why did God allow the entire universe to declare His Glory - only to mess it up / by allowing satan and his hordes to violate it ?



I will leave it there and let others take the forefront / thanks for listening    :D





Offline davetaff

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Re: Sin
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2020, 10:31:10 AM »
Why did God create mankind with a propensity to sin?  Before anyone answers "free will", we do not have unlimited free will - it is constrained by the way God created us.  For instance, we cannot read other people's minds or see into the future, much as we would like to.  So if we are constrained in some areas, why not did God constrain us a little bit further by removing the possibility of sin?  We would still have free will in all other areas.

Hi Melliff
The answer to your question is Love God is Love and he wants us to love him and love each other as he loves us
Love is a freewill gift from the heart we have to choose to love no one not even God can make us love or program us to love it has to be our own choice from the heart no strings attached
Love is the most powerful force in the universe but we have to choose it for ourselves this is why sin is in the world so that we can choose love above all else.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline JesusIsTheWay

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Re: Sin
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2020, 06:56:43 PM »
The answer is simple. How can someone prove to be righteous if there is not the option to chose evil? If there wasn't an option to sin, everyone would be righteous, right? But that is not the point. What does it help if you are righteous, if you never choose to be so? Only if you have the option to choose good or evil, and you choose good, then you prove that you are righteous. After Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the forbidden fruit, it is now up to us to prove whether we belong to God or not. Whether our hearts seek righteousness or not. We are living in this world to prove ourselves to be worthy of inheriting the Kingdom of God.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Sin
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2020, 11:29:49 AM »
The answer is simple. How can someone prove to be righteous if there is not the option to chose evil? If there wasn't an option to sin, everyone would be righteous, right? But that is not the point. What does it help if you are righteous, if you never choose to be so? Only if you have the option to choose good or evil, and you choose good, then you prove that you are righteous. After Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the forbidden fruit, it is now up to us to prove whether we belong to God or not. Whether our hearts seek righteousness or not. We are living in this world to prove ourselves to be worthy of inheriting the Kingdom of God.

Hi JesusisTheWay
I believe if we Love God and our fellow man friend and foe alike then we automatically become righteous which means doing the right thing.
Its an easy thing to say but not an easy thing to do but we must persevere and when we fail we have forgiveness through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline melliff

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Re: Sin
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2021, 03:35:45 PM »
Thank you for the responses but you missed the point of my question.  God created Mankind not with an option to sin, but with a propensity to sin.  This is clear from Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".  Had Mankind been given the option not to sin, one would have expected some to not to do so.  For whatever reason, Mankind was made to sin.  That was the way God made it.

Offline John

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Re: Sin
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2021, 03:53:24 PM »
" I believe if we Love God and our fellow man friend and foe alike then we automatically become righteous which means doing the right thing."
No Dave, we do not become rightous because of our belief.
As 1 John 1:8+9 says it is Jesus who makes us rightous.

Offline TJ's

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Re: Sin
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2021, 12:08:23 AM »
Hiya @melliff   

I once produced a link or box - on another forum and told people not to click on it = EG: "DO NOT CLICK ON THIS BOX"

Most did click on the box [common response that children have..[not all].

Most Chidren have to explore their boundaries] you see it in children around the world "say - "no" and they will do the opposite..

It's natural for our development [although a very few never get to do that] due to poverty or hunger etc..

After a while children will become selective in what they hear and do not want to hear [selective hearing/response] - as young adults

You also find this in older adults - who are fine tuned - to select ..




Not listening/hearing/responding is also a sin classified as sin by God [take Jonah for example]


Arguing/wrestling with God - Jonah listened /heard and ran away - why?

Jonah wanted these people to be judged for exloring their boundaries / for not listening/ he wanted them to receive their just reward..

So for God to ask him to save these people ?

No - that went against his own want/desire/  -.. suddenly Jonah  had selective hearing...


I love the "angry sulk at the end of this story"   [just like a child] or adult..

Where God provides shelter to keep Jonah cool - while Jonah get's over "what God made him do"

That's Jonah's sin - in the aftermath - of God using Jonah to save a nation - he never wanted to save..



It's a natural thing for for us - to want to see justice - we all have somone or people - who we think should be Judged..

i might lock them away in my life hoping that - one day they  will pay for what they did.

Imagine being used to "give them life again" - imagine God using me/us/  to release them..


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