Author Topic: Don't Let Water Baptism Stop You From The Ultimate Goal!  (Read 507 times)

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Offline Amos Ministries

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Don't Let Water Baptism Stop You From The Ultimate Goal!
« on: December 28, 2020, 07:44:23 PM »

Water baptism is an exciting decision that many followers of Christ make in their journey of faith. However, many believers think that once they have been baptized by water, they have reached the end goal. Water baptism is the first step towards reaching the ultimate goal of being baptized by fire, which is the Holy Spirit.

In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist says:

?I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
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Offline davetaff

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Re: Don't Let Water Baptism Stop You From The Ultimate Goal!
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2020, 12:50:10 PM »
Hi Amos
As you say water baptism is the beginning then we need to move on to the spiritual baptism.
To be completely immersed in the water of the word of God and dying to be reborn into the body of Christ

Love and Peace
Dave

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Re: Don't Let Water Baptism Stop You From The Ultimate Goal!
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2021, 05:53:28 PM »
Hi Amos
As you say water baptism is the beginning then we need to move on to the spiritual baptism.
To be completely immersed in the water of the word of God and dying to be reborn into the body of Christ

Love and Peace
Dave

Happy New Year Dave!

Yes, water symbolizes repentance. So to be completely immersed in repentance (declaring everything about yourself and your interpretation of God's word to be wrong) to the words of Jesus allows us to die to ourselves and receive the Holy Spirit.

Blessings,

Ashley
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Offline eik

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Re: Don't Let Water Baptism Stop You From The Ultimate Goal!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2021, 04:38:53 PM »
Water baptism is an exciting decision that many followers of Christ make in their journey of faith. However, many believers think that once they have been baptized by water, they have reached the end goal. Water baptism is the first step towards reaching the ultimate goal of being baptized by fire, which is the Holy Spirit.

In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist says:

?I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
I believe this touches on a matter that mainly had relevance to the era of John and Jesus. John could only preach a baptism of repentance, until Christ came, and was crucified. Now there is a different baptism, the baptism of Christ himself, which is for believers.

Eph 4:5 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"

After Christ's resurrection, believers are baptized into Christ himself, which means being baptized into his death. The Holy Spirit began to be given after Jesus was glorified. John 7:39 "But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive.."

Is there another condition for receiving the Holy Spirit apart from belief? I don't think so. Is there any limitation on God's power to give the Holy Spirit? No.

So I think the concept of the "one baptism" includes being sealed with the Spirit.

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Re: Don't Let Water Baptism Stop You From The Ultimate Goal!
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2021, 04:58:27 PM »
I believe this touches on a matter that mainly had relevance to the era of John and Jesus. John could only preach a baptism of repentance, until Christ came, and was crucified. Now there is a different baptism, the baptism of Christ himself, which is for believers.

Eph 4:5 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"

After Christ's resurrection, believers are baptized into Christ himself, which means being baptized into his death. The Holy Spirit began to be given after Jesus was glorified. John 7:39 "But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive.."

Is there another condition for receiving the Holy Spirit apart from belief? I don't think so. Is there any limitation on God's power to give the Holy Spirit? No.

So I think the concept of the "one baptism" includes being sealed with the Spirit.

I would have to disagree on the concept on one baptism. The Holy Spirit was not given after Jesus was glorified. There were people being baptized by water that did not receive the Holy Spirit.

In Acts 19, Paul explains this to new disciples in Ephesus:

Now it happened that while Apollos was in Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, ?Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?? And they said to him, ?On the contrary, we have not even heard if there is a Holy Spirit.? 3 And he said, ?Into what then were you baptized?? And they said, ?Into John?s baptism.? 4 Paul said, ?John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.? 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

Another example can be found in:

Acts 8:14-17 ? When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is a symbolic act representing your spirit becoming repentant. Now in this repentant state, you can hear the words of Jesus and then believe. Your spirit cannot believe Jesus without first being made repentant.

1 Peter 3:21 says:

And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also?not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Water baptism is simply a symbol of a clear conscience towards God or a repentant spirit. Now you have to use this repentant spirit to understand Jesus? teachings without compromise. Jesus? teachings (Jesus) will change your repentant spirit into the Holy Spirit. This is the meaning behind Jesus? first miracle in Canaa, where he changed the water (repentance) into wine (Holy Spirit).

It is the Holy Spirit that makes you a child of God. It is the Holy Spirit that is the proof that you?ve entered the kingdom of heaven.

Paul speaks about this in Romans 8:14

?For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.?

Acts 11:15-18 ? And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ?John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.? 17 Therefore, if God gave them the same gift as He also gave to us after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God?s way?? 18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, ?So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.?

?Repentance that leads to life? means to have a repentant spirit that leads to receiving the Holy Spirit. This is achieved through full acceptance of the teachings of Jesus, resulting in eternal life.


Quote: Is there another condition for receiving the Holy Spirit apart from belief? I don't think so. Is there any limitation on God's power to give the Holy Spirit? No.

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is obedience to Jesus' teachings without compromise or manipulation.
Acts 5:32 ? And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.?

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Offline eik

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Re: Don't Let Water Baptism Stop You From The Ultimate Goal!
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2021, 07:00:51 PM »
I would have to disagree on the concept on one baptism. The Holy Spirit was not given after Jesus was glorified. There were people being baptized by water that did not receive the Holy Spirit.

In Acts 19, Paul explains this to new disciples in Ephesus:

Now it happened that while Apollos was in Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, ?Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?? And they said to him, ?On the contrary, we have not even heard if there is a Holy Spirit.? 3 And he said, ?Into what then were you baptized?? And they said, ?Into John?s baptism.? 4 Paul said, ?John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.? 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

Another example can be found in:

Acts 8:14-17 ? When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
The laying on of hands by the apostles was particularly associated with baptism and the Holy Spirit came with the laying on of the apostles hands. The question is, if the rite is fallen into desuetude, is such a person precluded from receiving the Holy Spirit from God? No, because the Old Testament prophets received the Holy Spirit without the rite. Yet where the rite is practiced God will act in accordance with the rite, and God will wait for rite to be performed. Is it better to practice the rite? Of course it is. I take the apostolic practice of baptism to include the laying on of hands.

Baptism is a symbolic act representing your spirit becoming repentant. Now in this repentant state, you can hear the words of Jesus and then believe. Your spirit cannot believe Jesus without first being made repentant.

1 Peter 3:21 says:

And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also?not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
The heart becomes repentant, not the spirit. The spirit becomes alive on repentance.

As for belief, you can believe without becoming repentant. Belief comes from hearing. Rom 10:17.
Thus Simon Magus believed and was baptized, but his heart wasn't repentant: Acts 8:13.

Water baptism is simply a symbol of a clear conscience towards God or a repentant spirit. Now you have to use this repentant spirit to understand Jesus? teachings without compromise. Jesus? teachings (Jesus) will change your repentant spirit into the Holy Spirit. This is the meaning behind Jesus? first miracle in Canaa, where he changed the water (repentance) into wine (Holy Spirit).

It is the Holy Spirit that makes you a child of God. It is the Holy Spirit that is the proof that you?ve entered the kingdom of heaven.

Paul speaks about this in Romans 8:14

?For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.?

Acts 11:15-18 ? And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ?John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.? 17 Therefore, if God gave them the same gift as He also gave to us after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God?s way?? 18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, ?So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.?

?Repentance that leads to life? means to have a repentant spirit that leads to receiving the Holy Spirit. This is achieved through full acceptance of the teachings of Jesus, resulting in eternal life.
I would concur that the Holy Spirit won't be received without first accepting Christ in repentance.

Quote: Is there another condition for receiving the Holy Spirit apart from belief? I don't think so. Is there any limitation on God's power to give the Holy Spirit? No.

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is obedience to Jesus' teachings without compromise or manipulation.
Acts 5:32 ? And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.?
I wouldn't agree with the extremity of your condition although I agree that the Holy Spirit will only be given to those willing to obey God. Acts 5:32. Yet it is the Holy Spirit that enables perfection of obedience.Gal 5:16 The main condition for recieving the Holy Spirit is belief and contrition and a desire to obey.

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Re: Don't Let Water Baptism Stop You From The Ultimate Goal!
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2021, 09:00:19 PM »
The laying on of hands by the apostles was particularly associated with baptism and the Holy Spirit came with the laying on of the apostles hands. The question is, if the rite is fallen into desuetude, is such a person precluded from receiving the Holy Spirit from God?

Before Jesus, no one had the fullness of the Spirit dwelling upon them permanently. This only came about after Jesus was glorified.

John 7:39 - But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

[/quote] The heart becomes repentant, not the spirit. The spirit becomes alive on repentance. [/quote]

No. Everyone has their own spirit and this must become repentant.

Romans 8:16 - "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children."

[/quote] As for belief, you can believe without becoming repentant. Belief comes from hearing. Rom 10:17. [/quote]

And you 'hear' by becoming repentant. Jesus said 'blessed are your ears" meaning a 'repentant spirit' because now you can hear.


[/quote] Thus Simon Magus believed and was baptized, but his heart wasn't repentant: Acts 8:13. [/quote]

Simon Magnus only believed in the signs and wonders - he did not believe in the message or else he would have understood that you cannot buy and sell it.

[/quote] I would concur that the Holy Spirit won't be received without first accepting Christ in repentance. [/quote]

Agreed!

[/quote] I wouldn't agree with the extremity of your condition although I agree that the Holy Spirit will only be given to those willing to obey God. Acts 5:32. Yet it is the Holy Spirit that enables perfection of obedience. [/quote]

Acts 5:32 - "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him. '

[/quote] Gal 5:16 The main condition for recieving the Holy Spirit is belief and contrition and a desire to obey.[/quote]

This scripture is stating once you receive the Spirit, then you must let him guide you and to obey the Holy Spirit and not your own spirit. God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey him. He does not give the Holy Spirit to cause people to obey him.
[/quote]

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Re: Don't Let Water Baptism Stop You From The Ultimate Goal!
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2021, 11:57:53 AM »
Before Jesus, no one had the fullness of the Spirit dwelling upon them permanently. This only came about after Jesus was glorified.
John the Baptist did.

Luke 1:17 "He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,' and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."


No. Everyone has their own spirit and this must become repentant.
The closest the bible comes to "repentance in spirit" is Rom 7:6 (newness is spirit). A person's spirit must become alive to God, as opposed to being dead. Frequently this only comes by expelling the evil spirits living in a person. However repentance itself is strictly a matter of bodily activity and of the heart.

And you 'hear' by becoming repentant.
True. It's an endless cycle of hearing and repenting.

Simon Magnus only believed in the signs and wonders - he did not believe in the message or else he would have understood that you cannot buy and sell it.
It's not what the bible says. It says he "believed." Yet I accept his understanding of the message was very, very shallow; for he immediately saw the message as a means to personal financial gain.




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