Author Topic: Interpretation  (Read 1252 times)

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Offline Cariad

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2020, 02:19:56 PM »

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davetaff said:-
Chris
Thank you for your posts I'm  a little concerned  we are getting bogged down in Genesis and the creation account I'm  writing  the same things on here as on the The Genesis thread and I have been  saying these thing since I joined the site I think everyone knows what I believe.
So lets get back on track interpretation how and why do we interpret scripture the way we do and why.

I would like to take up the following which you said did not mean anything.

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davetaff said:-
That's right the Adam mentioned here is Israel, think about it Israel and Christ both went into Egypt, the both returned and went into the wilderness to be tempted, Israel 40 years, Christ 40 Days, Israel had 12 tribes. 1 was rejected the two sons of Joseph were taken in instead, Christ had 12 disciples one was rejected and 2 were taken in instead, it stands to reason Israel is the first Adam and Christ is the Last Adam     

'Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.' Romans 5:14 ESV

What I have said above is in keeping with the scripture given, the one to come is Christ, the Adam here is Israel, they both follow the same pattern it must mean something and is evidence of the similarities between Christ And Israel.
Hello Dave,

I did not say that what you had said did not mean anything, those are your words, I said that the Scriptural evidence you had provided for what you had said was no evidence for it at all (or words to that effect).  I stand by that statement.
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davetaff said:-
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Cariad said:-
  * Dave, the verses you have quoted (above) that you say changed your life, are part of a paragraph, which is part of a chapter, which is part of a book, which is part of the whole of Holy writ.  It cannot be taken in isolation and used to justify a form of interpretation, simply because you see it that way.

* In Isaiah 46, God has been contrasting the idols of gold and silver, who were not able to move, or speak, or act. with Himself as the One true God, Who not only knows the end from the beginning, but can speak confidently in advance of things yet to be done, in the knowledge that they would come to pass.  For He has foreknowledge.  You have chosen to take this verse and apply it to how you interpret the Scriptures, but that is not what the verse, within it's context, was intended for       
If the verse mentioned dose not mean what it says what dose it mean in its context, what was the verse intended for?
I interpret all scripture in the context of creation, the whole of scripture is about God glorious creation, the end of creation is Jesus Christ.
Creation is ongoing and our interpretation of scripture should take this fact into account, if our interpretation contradict  the creation account then it's most probably wrong.

Love and Peace
Dave
* I have already written to you regarding the meaning of the verses you spoke of in Isaiah 46:10-11 (quoted below), which you have quoted above. Reiterating it will not bring us any closer to agreement.

'Remember the former things of old:
for I am God, and there is none else;
I am God, and there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning,
and from ancient times the things that are not yet done,
saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure
:

Calling a ravenous bird from the east,
the man that executeth My counsel from a far country:
yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass;
I have purposed it, I will also do it.

(Isaiah 46:9:-11) 

* Understanding appears to have broken down between us. 
* At the beginning I said that I interpreted Scripture literally, while taking into account figures of speech, types and shadows.  You told me that you also interpreted Scripture literally, however this does not appear to be the case.
* I take into account the context within which a verse comes, but you do not appear to do so, but lift it out of context and use it as you wish. 
* That is no basis upon which to discuss anything, for all that results is misunderstanding and stalemate.  That does not honour God's word, does it?

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2020, 03:43:28 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply I hope I have not upset you I never meant to and of course you are right no good going over old ground we have both said what we believe to be true but there is quite a lot we do agree on and  that is Good best to give our interpretation and reason why and leave it to others to decide.

with that in mind I would like your opinion on the following verse

Joh 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.      

Now to me this means that the Farther had been working up to that time which would mean he had been working all the time and had not rested up to that time so the Father's sabbath rest was still in the future I am saying this in the context of creation of course.
a little further on we read.

Joh 5:19  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.      

we know that Christ has been working from the beginning of creation through him and for him all things are created this would seam to indicate that the father and son have bean working together from the beginning no rest.

do you think this is a reasonable interpretation if not why not

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Cariad

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2020, 06:56:39 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply I hope I have not upset you I never meant to and of course you are right no good going over old ground we have both said what we believe to be true but there is quite a lot we do agree on and  that is Good best to give our interpretation and reason why and leave it to others to decide.

with that in mind I would like your opinion on the following verse

Joh 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.     

Now to me this means that the Farther had been working up to that time which would mean he had been working all the time and had not rested up to that time so the Father's sabbath rest was still in the future I am saying this in the context of creation of course.
a little further on we read.

Joh 5:19  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.     

we know that Christ has been working from the beginning of creation through him and for him all things are created this would seam to indicate that the father and son have bean working together from the beginning no rest.

do you think this is a reasonable interpretation if not why not

Love and Peace
Dave

You would make a good fisherman, Dave, but if you don't mind I will not take the bait this time.  :D 


Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2020, 12:24:24 PM »
You would make a good fisherman, Dave, but if you don't mind I will not take the bait this time.  :D 


Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

Hi Chris
Just trying to worm myself into you good books :)
But seriously I hope we can  continue to discuss these things as friends I value your point of view I think we agree on more things than we disagree.
If you would like to ask any questions or give any interpretation of scripture  please do don't forget that if something we say gets someone to pick up their bible and start reading then we would have done  something good for the gospel.
Looking forward to your response

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2020, 11:20:42 AM »
Hi
Looks like I'm all alone again so whats interpretation all about I would think we could fill a library with all the different interpretation there are out there so which ones should we believe.
Should we believe any of them being as many of them seam to contradict each other is it a case of interpretation is the word of man and the bible is the word of God.
So the word of God overrides the word of man every time so should we just believe the scripturs as they are literally and not try interpret them.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2020, 01:24:34 PM »
Hi
So should we believe all man made doctoring and theology let us look at the RC doctoring of Mary as a perpetual virgin that Mary was a virgin before the birth of Christ is not in question but after she gave birth to Christ and other children there is no way she could be called a virgin.
This is just an example there are many others the trinity for one there is no mention in scripture that mentions a trinity and more importantly nobody in scripture teaches the doctoring.
So what are we to believe what men say or only what God says is the amen in revelations the last word from God and we should not go beyond it.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2020, 12:44:13 PM »
Hi
So lets take a look as one of my favourite sections that I am told I interpret  out of contex.

       For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:  Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:5-‬9 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/2pe.3.5-9.KJV         


In this section Peter is speaking about creation not just one creation but two the first creation God made perished the Peter gose on to say the heavens and earth which are now make it plain that it is a new heaven and earth.
Then Peter goes on to tell us that with the Lord a day is a thousand years and we should not be ignorant of this fact in other words we should not forget it.
We know creation will take 6 days and we know that God began the creation of this heaven and earth after the flood and it will take 6 days a 1000 years long.
Then Peter goes on to tell us why it would take so long because God  loves us and dose not want anybody to perish.
 
So can anyone tell me why this is out of contex its all about believing  what Gods word says not what men say.

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/1/2pe.3.5-9.KJV

Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2020, 12:42:51 PM »
Hi
Something I forgot to add to the above that I think is important

     Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.  The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/2co.5.17.ESV     


We see here that Paul makes it quite clear that God begins new creations and they all have one thing in common they are all about the creation of man in Gods image.
Man 1 before the flood was spoiled by the angels that cohabited with human woman this man was destroyed in the flood.
Man 2 Israel failed through disobedience and idol worship but remember all Israel will be saved.
Man 3 is Jesus Christ our Lord and this man will succeed through obedience in Love this is the new creation.
So my contention is the creation account in Genesis is about God creating man in his Image.
I would like to make it very plain I know God created all life forms on the planet and the term man in the image of God means all mankind and this will be achieved in Jesus Christ  our Lord the last Adam.

Love and Peace
Dave

https://bible.com/bible/59/2co.5.17.ESV

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