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Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2020, 09:25:11 AM »

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Hello Dave,

This has to be Adam, created by God as mentioned in Genesis 1:26-27, and Genesis 5:1-2, and as described in Genesis 2:4-25, for there was no other created.

  hi Chris
Thank you for your reply the problem is you are reading Genesis  as something that happened thousands of years ago I read it as something that is on going the end of creation is man in the image of God and that man is Christ at his second coming


Noah was a type of Adam, who came from Adams loins by descent, but there was only one Adam.

you will need to prove that statement with scriptur 


* There are many things that happened during the history of Israel which can be compared with the life of Christ, but that does not make Israel, Adam, or Israel, Christ.

    Are you saying that all the evidence I have given above is mere coincidence and don't mean anything.
And don't forget that man in the Image of God is a man and a woman joined together as one this will happen when our Lord is united with his bride

     How long will you waver,  O faithless daughter? For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth: a woman encircles a man.?
Jeremiah 31:22 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jer.31.22.ESV     
   

Love and Peace
Dave


Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris   
https://bible.com/bible/59/jer.31.22.ESV

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2020, 12:55:01 PM »
Hi Chris
Thought I'd  make a statement of what I believe so you will know were I'm coming from.
I believe that God has created everything that exists in heaven and earth all this before the flood this included man in his image.
This man was contaminated by the angles that came down and contaminated the creation of man created in Gods image as a result God destroyed that creation but saved Noah and his family  plus everything else that was on the ark interesting to note that only Noah was said to be righteous.
So all we have left is Noah and everything  that was on the ark which was men and woman and all the animals the only thing missing  was man in the image of God he was destroyed in the flood so God began to remedy this it would be based on the creation account in Genesis 1 it would take 6 days 1000 years long.

         But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/2pe.3.8.ESV   


In essence  we both believe ths same thing God created man in his image in 6 days the only difference we have is the length of day and when they started and finished.

So lets look at the verse that changed my life.

    declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ?My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,?   calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country.  I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.
Isaiah 46:10-‬11 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/isa.46.10-11.ESV       


The beginning is the creation account in Genesis  the end the amen in revelations so what was Gods purpose to create man in his image to look after the earth his creation.
Then we need to look at " will bring it to pass " and " I have purposed, and I will do it."
When these words were written God had not achieved his purpose like at the words I will do it if it was already done he would not need to say I will do it.
Thats my interpretation what is yours after all our thread is about interpretation
https://bible.com/bible/59/2pe.3.8.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/isa.46.10-11.ESV

Offline Cariad

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2020, 03:57:46 PM »
Quote
Dave said:-
Quote
Cariad said:-
Hello Dave,

This has to be Adam, created by God as mentioned in Genesis 1:26-27, and Genesis 5:1-2, and as described in Genesis 2:4-25, for there was no other created.
hi Chris
Thank you for your reply the problem is you are reading Genesis  as something that happened thousands of years ago I read it as something that is on going the end of creation is man in the image of God and that man is Christ at his second coming
Hello Dave,

The creation of Adam did happen thousands of years ago. 
Quote
Dave said
Quote
Cariad said:-
Noah was a type of Adam, who came from Adam's loins by descent, but there was only one Adam.
you will need to prove that statement with scripture.
* Are you saying that I need to prove that Noah originated from Adam?  When the whole of mankind originated from Him!!!!
Quote
Dave said:-
Quote
Cariad said:-
* There are many things that happened during the history of Israel which can be compared with the life of Christ, but that does not make Israel, Adam, or Israel, Christ.
Are you saying that all the evidence I have given above is mere coincidence and don't mean anything.
And don't forget that man in the Image of God is a man and a woman joined together as one this will happen when our Lord is united with his bride

How long will you waver,  O faithless daughter? For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth: a woman encircles a man.?
Jeremiah 31:22 ESV
     
Love and Peace
Dave 

* You have given no evidence, Dave. 

* Male and Female were made in the image of God, Dave.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Cariad

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2020, 05:06:43 PM »
Hi Chris

Thought I'd  make a statement of what I believe so you will know were I'm coming from.

I believe that God has created everything that exists in heaven and earth all this before the flood this included man in his image.
This man was contaminated by the angles that came down and contaminated the creation of man created in Gods image as a result God destroyed that creation but saved Noah and his family  plus everything else that was on the ark interesting to note that only Noah was said to be righteous.

So all we have left is Noah and everything  that was on the ark which was men and woman and all the animals the only thing missing  was man in the image of God he was destroyed in the flood.
Hello Dave,

Thank you.

* Yes, God created everything that exists in heaven and earth in the beginning, way before the flood.
* When the angels took of the daughters of mankind, and produced children by them the human race became contaminated.
* Noah only was found to be a righteous man (uncontaminated).
* He and his family were saved by entering the ark along with two of each creature God had created.
* Mankind was made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26-27), so Noah and his family, who survived the flood, are representatives of mankind who were made in the image of God.

Quote
davetaff said:-
... so God began to remedy this it would be based on the creation account in Genesis 1 it would take 6 days 1000 years long.

But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8 ESV
* Where in Scripture are we told this, Dave?

Quote
davetaff said:-
In essence  we both believe this same thing God created man in his image in 6 days the only difference we have is the length of day and when they started and finished.

* We both believe that God created man in His own image on the 6th day of creation (Genesis 1:26 & Genesis 5:1-2).
* I believe that man in God's image was marred at the fall of man in Genesis 3, but that those who have been reconciled to God, through trust in the sacrificial offering of Christ on their behalf, will be conformed to the image of Christ at the resurrection.
Quote
davetaff said:-[
So lets look at the verse that changed my life.

    declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'   calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country.  I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.'
Isaiah 46:10-‬11 ESV
 
The beginning is the creation account in Genesis  the end the amen in revelations so what was Gods purpose to create man in his image to look after the earth his creation.
Then we need to look at " will bring it to pass " and " I have purposed, and I will do it."
When these words were written God had not achieved his purpose like at the words I will do it if it was already done he would not need to say I will do it.
That;s my interpretation what is yours after all our thread is about interpretation
'Remember the former things of old:
for I am God, and there is none else;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
Declaring the end from the beginning,
and from ancient times the things that are not yet done,
saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure:
Calling a ravenous bird from the east,
 the man that executeth My counsel from a far country:
yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass;
I have purposed it, I will also do it.'

(Isaiah 46:9-11) 
 
* Dave, the verses you have quoted (above) that you say changed your life, are part of a paragraph, which is part of a chapter, which is part of a book, which is part of the whole of Holy writ.  It cannot be taken in isolation and used to justify a form of interpretation, simply because you see it that way. 

* In Isaiah 46, God has been contrasting the idols of gold and silver, who were not able to move, or speak, or act. with Himself as the One true God, Who not only knows the end from the beginning, but can speak confidently in advance of things yet to be done, in the knowledge that they would come to pass.  For He has foreknowledge.  You have chosen to take this verse and apply it to how you interpret the Scriptures, but that is not what the verse, within it's context, was intended for.

* I have told you what my interpretation is.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2020, 05:11:55 PM »
hi Chris
Thank you for your reply the problem is you are reading Genesis  as something that happened thousands of years ago I read it as something that is on going the end of creation is man in the image of God and that man is Christ at his second coming


Hello Dave,

The creation of Adam did happen thousands of years ago.  you will need to prove that statement with scripture.

an Adam was created thousands of years ago not in dispute but he was destroyed in the flood so God began a new creation of man in his image with Noah   


* Are you saying that I need to prove that Noah originated from Adam?  When the whole of mankind originated from Him!!!!Are you saying that all the evidence I have given above is mere coincidence and don't mean anything.
And don't forget that man in the Image of God is a man and a woman joined together as one this will happen when our Lord is united with his bride

I am descended from my great grand farther but I am not him like wise Noah descended from Adam but he is not Adam and there is nothing in scripture that says he is or the he represents Adam       

How long will you waver,  O faithless daughter? For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth: a woman encircles a man.?
Jeremiah 31:22 ESV
     
Love and Peace
Dave 


* You have given no evidence, Dave. 

I have given plenty of evidence you choose to ignore it Israel and Christ follow the same path it can not be a coincidence

* Male and Female were made in the image of God, Dave.

yes but it was when the became one flesh

Gen 2:22  And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 
Gen 2:23  And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 
Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.     
its man and woman united that is man in the image of God as in Christ and his bride being united that is Christ the man and his bride the church who can be millions of individuals read the quote above  Jeremiah 31:22 ESV this is a reference Christ and his Church written thousands of years in advance how wonderful is that 


Thank
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Love and Peace
Dave   

Offline Cariad

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2020, 08:34:49 PM »
Quote
davetaff said:-
an Adam was created thousands of years ago not in dispute but he was destroyed in the flood so God began a new creation of man in his image with Noah   
Hello Dave,

* You say, 'an Adam', as though there were more than one.  Yet only one is spoken of in Genesis. 
* Adam died prior to the flood, before the birth of Noah, so he was not destroyed by the flood. 
* God did not begin a new creation with Noah, for Noah came through the line of Adam, and two of all created beings had been saved in the ark. 
* Noah was indeed in the image of God for all mankind was made so.
Quote
davetaff said:-
Are you saying that all the evidence I have given above is mere coincidence and don't mean anything.
* I am saying that you have given no evidence worth it's salt.
Quote
davetaff said:-
And don't forget that man in the Image of God is a man and a woman joined together as one this will happen when our Lord is united with his bride.
* 'So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.'(Gen 1:27) 
Quote
davetaff said:-
I am descended from my great grand farther but I am not him like wise Noah descended from Adam but he is not Adam and there is nothing in scripture that says he is or the he represents Adam 
* Noah descended from Adam, as the genealogy of Christ in Luke 3 shows.

'Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech, which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.' (Luke 3:36-38) 

* I believe that Noah was a 'type' or 'shadow' of Adam, and no more than that.

Thank
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Cariad

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2020, 08:36:14 PM »
'And the LORD God said unto the woman,
What is this that thou hast done?
And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
And the LORD God said unto the serpent,
Because thou hast done this,
thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field;
upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.'

(Genesis 3:13-15) 

Hello @davetaff,

What has to be remembered is that the promise of God, made to Satan, in Genesis 3 (above) had to be fulfilled.  The seed of the woman was secured from corruption, by the judgment of the flood; and brought through the flood by righteous Noah and his wife, who were saved from the waters of judgment which engulfed the earth, with their three sons and their wives. Through Noah the line of the seed passed to Shem (Luke 3:36) and on down through Isaac (Genesis 21:12) to the birth of the Seed, which is Christ.

Satan has constantly sought to thwart God's purposes, and at one point there was only one child left to carry the seed on, and that was Joash (2 Kings 11). It was vital that the line that began with Adam (Luke 3:38), and passed through Seth (Luke 3:38) on to Noah (Luke 3:36), and onward through David (Luke 3:21) to Christ Himself be preserved.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: Interpretation
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2020, 01:23:24 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your posts I'm  a little concerned  we are getting bogged down in Genesis and the creation account I'm  writing  the same things on here as on the The Genesis thread and I have been  saying these thing since I joined the site I think everyone knows what I believe.
So lets get back on track interpretation how and why do we interpret scripture the way we do and why.

I would like to take up the following which you said did not mean anything.

Quote
       That's right the Adam mentioned here is Israel think about it Israel and Christ both went into Egypt the both returned and went into the wilderness to be tempted Israel 40 years Christ 40 Days Israel had 12 tribes 1 was rejected the two sons of Joseph were taken in instead Christ had 12 disciples one was rejected and 2 were taken in instead it stands to reason Israel is the first Adam and Christ is the Last Adam     

      Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
Romans 5:14 ESV

https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.5.14.ESV 


What I have said above is in keeping with the scripture given the one to come is Christ the Adam here is Israel they both follow the same pattern it must mean something and is evidence of the simualetries between Christ And Israel.

Quote
  * Dave, the verses you have quoted (above) that you say changed your life, are part of a paragraph, which is part of a chapter, which is part of a book, which is part of the whole of Holy writ.  It cannot be taken in isolation and used to justify a form of interpretation, simply because you see it that way.

* In Isaiah 46, God has been contrasting the idols of gold and silver, who were not able to move, or speak, or act. with Himself as the One true God, Who not only knows the end from the beginning, but can speak confidently in advance of things yet to be done, in the knowledge that they would come to pass.  For He has foreknowledge.  You have chosen to take this verse and apply it to how you interpret the Scriptures, but that is not what the verse, within it's context, was intended for       

If the verse mentioned dose not mean what it says what dose it mean in its contex what was the verse intended for.
I interpret all scripture in the contex of creation the whole of scripture is about God glorious creation the end of creation is Jesus Christ.
Creation is ongoing and our interpretation of scripture should take this fact into account if our interpretation  contradict  the creation account then it's most probably wrong.

Love and Peace
Dave


https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.5.14.ESV

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