Author Topic: Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?  (Read 1081 times)

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Offline rstrats

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Re: Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2020, 12:24:50 PM »
davetaff,
re:   "I have read somewhere that the Jewish day began at sundown don't know if it helps."

I don't see how that shows that a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. 

Offline davetaff

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Re: Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2020, 01:27:51 PM »
Hi Rstrats
Thank you for your reply but dose any of this matter surely if Christ says he would be in the earth 3 days and 3 nights the thats what happened or are we trying to make him out to be a lie.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

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Re: Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2020, 04:46:33 PM »
You are the one saying that the biblical account is false, I am merely repeating what those who have studied the language and culture say.

It is up to you to demonstrate that the Greek, Hebrew etc used does mean three periods of 24 hours and no less.


Offline rstrats

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Re: Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2020, 06:30:08 PM »
davetaff,
re:  "... if Christ says he would be in the earth 3 days and 3 nights the thats what happened..."

This topic is directed to those who think the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week.  You apparently are not one of those.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2020, 11:33:34 PM »
Perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2020, 01:27:33 AM »
And that "someone new" needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.

Offline Cariad

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Re: Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2020, 10:59:51 AM »
'Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah.
And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,'

(Jon 1:17 & 2:1)

'For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.'

(Mat 12:40)   

Hello @rstrats,

In a book I have entitles,'Figures of Speech used in Scripture' by Dr E.W. Bullinger, under the use of 'Idiom' (or 'the common manner of speaking') says in regard to the term, 'Three days and three nights' (quote):-
Quote
Jonah 1:17 & 2:1 (above), quoted in Matthew 12:40.

The expression, 'Three days and three nights,' is an idiom which covers any parts of three days and three nights. In 1 Samuel 30:11-12, it is said that a certain Egyptian had not eaten bread and drunk water for 'three days and three nights,' and yet it was only three days since he fell sick (ver.13), not four days.

In Esther 4:16, Esther says she and her maidens will fast, 'three days and three nights,' and yet it was on 'the third day' that Esther went in to the king, not the 4th day, which it must have been if the expression were literally understood.

It may seem absurd to Gentiles and to Westerns to use words in such a manner, but that does not alter the fact.

Now the New Testament is for the most part Hebrew in idiom, but Greek in language.  This is the simple explanation of the difference between it and classical Greek.  Moreover, there is reason to believe that the First Gospel, as we have it, is a translation from a Hebrew Original.  This is one of the idioms.  It is used in Jonah 1:17-2:1, and by our Lord in Matthew 12:40.  And yet many Scriptures say that He should rise, and did actually rise on 'the third day'.  This could not have been if the expression were used in its literal sense.  It must have been the fourth day and not the 'third'.

The fact is that the idiom covers any part of 'three days and three nights'.  This method of Hebrew reckoning is as distinct from Gentile reckoning, as their commencing the day at sunset and our commencing it at midnight.  All these different modes of reckoning are peculiar to the respective peoples and languages and must be duly taken into account.

The Lord's words in Matthew 12:40 do not disagree with the Scripture assertion that He should rise on 'the third day'.

We have the expression 'after three days' once (Matthew 27:63), and 'in three days' once (John 2:19).  But the common expression is 'on the third day,' and it occurs ten times.  But if the expression be literal and not an idiom, all these passages should say the fourth day!  Paul preached the resurrection on 'the third day' according to the Scripture (1 Corinthians 15:4), and this is the great Scriptural fact which we cannot get away from.

Neither can we alter the fact that He rose on 'the first day of the week.'

Neither can we alter the history which records His death and burial as taking place the day before the Sabbath.  'The sabbath drew on' (Luke 23:54; Matthew 27:62); 'the day before the sabbath' (Mark 15:42); and yet the two disciples going to Emmaus on the first day of the week say, 'This is the third day (not the fourth) since these things were done' (Luke 24:21).

From all this it is perfectly clear that nothing is to be gained by forcing the one passage (Matthew 12:40) to have a literal meaning, in the face of all these other passages which distinctly state that the Lord died and was buried the day before the Sabbath and rose the day after it, viz., on the first day of the week.  These many statements are literal and history: but the one passage is an idiom which means any part of 'three days and three nights.'  The one complete day and night (24 hours) and the parts of two nights (36 hours in all) fully satisfy both the idiom and the history.

It may be added that we have a similar usage in English.  When a person is sentenced to 'three days' imprisonment, 'it may be late in the evening of the first day when he arrives at the prison, but when the doors open on the morning of the third day (not the fourth) he walks out a free man.  In other words, if a person is committed to prison for three days - and he reaches it on Monday night - he leaves it the first thing on Wednesday morning. (ref. 'The Coming Prince' by Dr Robert Anderson, C.B.)

 
Hoping this is helpful to you.
Within the love of Christ
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris






Offline Cariad

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Re: Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2020, 11:13:19 AM »
'For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.'

(Matthew 12:40) 

Hello again, @rstrats,

Why should I doubt that 'the heart of the earth' means the grave? For Isaiah 53:9 confirms it prophetically when referring to the Lord Jesus Christ:- 

'And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death;
because He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth.


We also have the record of His death and burial in the gospels:- (Matthew 27:57-66; Matthew 28:1-15; Mark 15:42-47; Luke 23:50-56; John 19:38-42). What more evidence would we want than this?

Praise God!
 
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

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