Author Topic: John 5:17  (Read 170 times)

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Offline strobe

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John 5:17
« on: October 02, 2020, 04:40:47 AM »

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Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath and His reply seems very strange: "My Father is working until now and I am working."
Has anyone got any thoughts on this?
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

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Offline John

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Re: John 5:17
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2020, 08:40:26 AM »
We are told only once of God resting and that was on the seventh day of creation.
We are give the promise of entering into the rest Jesus will have in heaven.

  So does God rest? As he is spirit he doesn't actually physically work. 

The rest has to refer to God making an effort not to do things, but as the universe is sustained by God's word his resting has to be symbolic.

Offline davetaff

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Re: John 5:17
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2020, 10:50:38 AM »
Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath and His reply seems very strange: "My Father is working until now and I am working."
Has anyone got any thoughts on this?

Hi Strobe
Thank you for your Question I think I have answered this in many of my posts.
My answer  is Gods sabbath rest is a future event this creation began with Noah  it will last 7 days 1000 years long the last day will be Christs 1000 year reign this is when the Father hands everything  over to the son to finish the creation.
The millennium  is the Fathers sabbath rest the verse you have quoted prooves that the Father was working up to the time of Christ and I can't  find anything in scripture to say he has rested since.
The problem is that the creation account in Genesis has been thought of as something  that happened  thousands  of years ago I believe that creation is still ongoing.
Look at it this way the object of creation was to creat man in the image of God and the only man who fits the bill is Jesus Christ.

    Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Hebrews 1:3 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.1.3.KJV       


Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.1.3.KJV

Offline Cariad

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Re: John 5:17
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2020, 07:11:09 PM »
Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath and His reply seems very strange: "My Father is working until now and I am working."
Has anyone got any thoughts on this?  So if He were working on that Sabbath day then so was the Father. Yet what He was doing was not unlawful.   

'But Jesus answered them,
My Father worketh hitherto,
and I work.
'

(John 5:17) 

Hi @strobe,

The words that the Lord Jesus Christ spoke were not His own but those given Him of the Father.  The works that He did were the works of the Father.  So if He was either speaking or working - they were the words and works of God the Father.  Regardless of the day or the hour.

'I must work the works of Him that sent Me, while it is day:
the night cometh, when no man can work.'

(John 9:4)

'Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father;
for which of those works do ye stone Me?

(Joh 10:32)   
 
'Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him,
How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not:
the works that I do in My Father's Name, they bear witness of Me.'

(Joh 10:24-25) 

'Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works.
'

(Joh 14:10) 
 
Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline strobe

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Re: John 5:17
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2020, 11:47:50 PM »
Hi Strobe
Thank you for your Question I think I have answered this in many of my posts.
My answer  is Gods sabbath rest is a future event this creation began with Noah  it will last 7 days 1000 years long the last day will be Christs 1000 year reign this is when the Father hands everything  over to the son to finish the creation.
The millennium  is the Fathers sabbath rest the verse you have quoted prooves that the Father was working up to the time of Christ and I can't  find anything in scripture to say he has rested since.
The problem is that the creation account in Genesis has been thought of as something  that happened  thousands  of years ago I believe that creation is still ongoing.
Look at it this way the object of creation was to creat man in the image of God and the only man who fits the bill is Jesus Christ.

    Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Hebrews 1:3 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.1.3.KJV       


Love and Peace
Dave

Hello again Dave!
Yes your previous post on this subject was eye-opening to say the least. I have spent many days in the wilderness researching this topic and I have some thoughts for you:
I broadly agree with you except I think creation began with Adam who was the light in day one. Noah was the separation of the waters in Day two. Moses and the law was the gathering of the waters in Day Three. Christ and John the Baptist were the sun and moon in day four. The waters swarming with living creatures in day five was the expansion of the Church to all corners of the world. At the end of day six Christ will return and man will finally be made in the image of God. You are absolutely right God has not rested and will not until Christ shall come with shout of acclamation. But I think we are closer than you suggest to that great day!
I want to thank you for bringing that criminally undervalued verse to my attention, the more I think about it, the more I am dumbfounded by what it must mean for it literally (if I am right) binds the Bible together from Genesis to Revelation and most people don't understand it any more than the Pharisees did. I even sat through a debate on whether or not we are required to keep the Sabbath and John ch5 was discussed but only up to verse 16! I was almost shouting at the monitor "BUT JESUS ANSWERED THEM! AND WHAT DID HE MEAN?"
What thinkest thou of all this?
Love and peace to you too my brother in Christ.
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.1.3.KJV
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline davetaff

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Re: John 5:17
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2020, 11:44:07 AM »
Hi Strobe
Thanks for your reply  nice to know somebody agrees with me yes you are right the creation  began with Adam before the flood but this man in Gods image was contaminated  by the angles  that fell so God destroyed that creation with the flood what the flood was I'm  not sure.
Then God began a new creation with Noah and everything on the ark the thing is everything God needed was on the ark the onlything missing was man in the image of God.
What dose man in the image of God look like the best representation  we have is Israel Moses  represents God Aaron  represent Christ the levies represent the church the people represent the children created by Christ and his church.

You said.

Quote
    . Christ and John the Baptist were the sun and moon in day four         

I believe the sun and the moon are Christ and his church the moon is the reflected light of the sun as the true church reflects the glorious light of  our Lord Jesus Christ.
Otherwise I think your description  of the creation week is very good thank you.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline strobe

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Re: John 5:17
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2020, 02:04:22 PM »
The reason I think it was John the Baptist is from John ch1: He was not the light but came to bear witness about the light, the light which enlightens everyone was coming into the world.
Also, Jesus died at the very end of day 4 so the church had not yet been set up, that was for the Apostles to carry out later.
Either way, it seems rather a minor point when we are almost completely on the same page otherwise!
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline davetaff

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Re: John 5:17
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2020, 02:34:56 PM »
The reason I think it was John the Baptist is from John ch1: He was not the light but came to bear witness about the light, the light which enlightens everyone was coming into the world.
Also, Jesus died at the very end of day 4 so the church had not yet been set up, that was for the Apostles to carry out later.
Either way, it seems rather a minor point when we are almost completely on the same page otherwise!

Hi Stobe
thank you for your reply maybe we can agree on that the sun the moon and the stars were created within day 4 and the sequence of events were.

Gen 1:16  And God made the two great lights?the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night?and the stars.    

as we see the greater light ( Christ ) was created first then the lesser light ( the church ) then the stars (children) all this within day 4.

what this is is mankind in the image of God mind you if this is the only thing we dis agree on we are doing well thank you for agreeing it means allot to me.

Love and Peace
Dave


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