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Offline Cariad

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Re: the millenium
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2020, 01:32:12 PM »
Hello again, @davetaff,

The three features that stand out in Revelation 20:1-10 are:-

1) The Restraint of Satan - Satan bound 1,000 years - nations deceived no more until the 1,000 years are finished.
2) The Reign of the overcomers - Resurrected in the first resurrection, thrones and judgement is given to them, as Priests of God and of Christ.
3) The Rebellion at the close -Satan loosed, nations deceived, the camp of the saints encompassed, and the rest of the dead resurrected.

* The millennium ends as every other dispensation has ended, in failure.  This is not the beginning of the Lord's work of power and glory, but the last of His dealings with men.  The millennial kingdom finds its basis in the words of Exodus 19:3-6:-

'And Moses went up unto God,
and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying,
Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians,
.. and how I bare you on eagles' wings,
.... and brought you unto Myself.
Now therefore,
.. if ye will obey my voice indeed,
.... and keep My covenant,
...... then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people:
........ for all the earth is mine:
.......... And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests,
............ and an holy nation.
These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.'

(Exod. 19:3-6) 

* This passage tells us that:-
1) Israel is separated from all the nations
2) Israel is to be a peculiar treasure
3) Israel is to be a 'royal priesthood'
4) The conditions are obedience and keeping of the covenant.
5) The words 'for all the earth is Mine' suggests that this special favour is shown to Israel with a view to the blessing of the nations.

* Israel utterly failed to fulfill the conditions, and instead of being a blessing in the earth, they became a curse.
The prophet Malachi speaks of a remnant of faithful ones who feared the Lord in the days of apostasy, and of such the Lord said:-

'And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts,
.. in that day when I make up My jewels;
.... and I will spare them,
...... as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Then shall ye return,
.. and discern between the righteous and the wicked,
.... between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not.'

(Mal 3:17) 

* Looking back at Malachi 2, the great controversy is concerning the failure of the priests.  The Lord says that, as a result of their failure, their very blessings shall be cursed.  Special emphasis is placed upon the fact that they had 'corrupted the covenant' (Malachi 2:8 ), and that they had not preserved their peculiar separateness unto the Lord  (Malachi 2:11-12).

* The Apostle Peter gives another link between Israel and the millennium.  To the dispersed of Israel that were looking for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, who had been redeemed from the vain conversation received by tradition from their Fathers, the Apostle says, in 1 Peter 2:5 & 9:-

'Ye also, as lively stones,
.. are built up a spiritual house,
.... an holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices,
.. acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.'

(1 Pet. 2:5)

'But ye are a chosen generation,
.. a royal priesthood,
.... an holy nation,
...... a peculiar people;
that ye should shew forth the praises of Him
.. Who hath called you out of darkness
.... into His marvellous light:'

(1 Pet. 2:9) 

* The whole atmosphere of Peter's epistle is that of suffering with the view to the glory that will follow.  Which is what is seen in Revelation 20.  However it's worth taking a look first at Revelation 1:5-6, which says:-

'And from Jesus Christ,
.. Who is the faithful witness,
.... and the first begotten of the dead,
...... and the prince of the kings of the earth.
Unto Him that loved us,
.. and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
.... And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father;
to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.'

(Rev 1:5-5)   

* Here we can see that the royal priesthood is composed not of those who obeyed and kept the covenant, but of those who have been redeemed.  In harmony with this is the song of the four living creatures and the twenty four elders in Revelation 5:9-10:-

'And they sung a new song, saying,
.. Thou art worthy to take the book,
.... and to open the seals thereof:
...... for Thou wast slain,
........ and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood
.......... out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests:
.. and we shall reign on the earth.'

(Rev 5:9-10)

* Coming to Revelation 20:4, we can see further details concerning those who constitute the first resurrection and the royal priesthood:-

'And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
.. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded
.... for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
...... and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
........ neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.'

 
* These are essentially the overcovers of the Apocalypse.  That such do not exclude other of like precious faith we may learn from Matthew 19:27-28:-

'Then answered Peter and said unto Him,
.. Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed Thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them,
.. Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me,
.... in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory,
...... ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'

(Mat 19:27)

Praise God!

* This must be where I end for today.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: the millenium
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 01:41:42 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for another good post you said

Quote
     'the Bride of the Lamb' (Revelation 19:7), for Isaiah 54:6-8 makes it clear that Israel is as a as a 'woman forsaken' and a 'wife of youth' who had been refused; whereas the Bride, the Lamb's wife, is not the nation of Israel, once divorced but now restored, but a company of overcomers whose seat of authority is not the earthly but the heavenly Jerusalem, a company that had never known divorcement     

Made me think of Romans 11 and the branches being broken of an branches being grafted in will we all be part of the same tree in the end times then we have.

     For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Isaiah 54:5 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/isa.54.5.KJV       


Of course devorce is not an option but when Israel died in AD 70 our Lord was free to marry whom he will but in the last time when Israel is raised to life and we all belong to the same tree will our lord be the husband of the whole tree.

Love and peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/1/isa.54.5.KJV

Offline Cariad

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Re: the millenium
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2020, 02:15:28 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for another good post you said

Made me think of Romans 11 and the branches being broken of an branches being grafted in will we all be part of the same tree in the end times then we have.

     For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Isaiah 54:5 KJV


Of course divorce is not an option but when Israel died in AD 70 our Lord was free to marry whom he will but in the last time when Israel is raised to life and we all belong to the same tree will our lord be the husband of the whole tree.

Love and peace
Dave
'Then said God, Call his name Loammi:
for ye are not My People, and I will not be your God.
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea,
which cannot be measured nor numbered;
and it shall come to pass,
that in the place where it was said unto them, "Ye are not My People,"
there it shall be said unto them, "Ye are the sons of the living God."

(Hos 1:9-10)

Hello @davetaff,

Thank you again for your response.  Though I do not understand your reasoning.

Israel has become 'Loammi' (ie., 'not My People') because of unbelief, but has not died.  Israel became 'Loammi' many times during Israel's history and was restored again.  They are the only 'People' that have ever had the privilege of being called by God, 'My People'; the exception is found in Titus 2:14 where the Church is called 'a peculiar people'., but this title is used while Israel is Loammi, and 'Not My People'.

Acts 13 records the opening of Paul's great missionary activity.  A Jew who withstood the preaching of the gospel to the Gentiles is blinded and a Gentile is saved - an anticipation in dramatic fashion of the sequel found in Acts 28, where the nation is blinded and salvation sent to the Gentiles.  Acts 13:16-41 is the record of Paul's witness in the synagogue at Antioch, and it opens and closes with a reference to Israel which involves the recognition of the 'Lo-ammi' principle.

In order to understand the dispensational importance of Paul's reference to Israel's history, reference to the book of Judges and the book of Kings is necessary, to take note of the times Israel is placed in servitude by God because they did evil in His sight.  These times of servitude were Loammi periods. e.g., Judges 3:8 & 11, these times were interspersed with times of 'rest', when Israel 'cried unto the Lord' and He delivered them.  See Deuteronomy 30:1-3.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: the millenium
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2020, 10:54:28 AM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply what I ment was Israel as a nation ceased to exist within  the borders  of its own land Israel as a nation was dead.
The Jews were scattered  throughout the nations of the world but as a nation they did no exist they were dead.

     Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 7:4 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/rom.7.4.KJV   


As we read in my previous post our Lord is Israels husband and the only way he can marry another is if his first wife dies according  to the law so Israel had to die or Christ would be a law breaker and thats not possible.

Now in these last times we see Israel raised from the dead all that remains is for Israel as a nation to accept Jesus as their King.

Love and peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/1/rom.7.4.KJV

Offline Cariad

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Re: the millenium
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2020, 11:12:51 AM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply what I ment was Israel as a nation ceased to exist within  the borders  of its own land Israel as a nation was dead.
The Jews were scattered  throughout the nations of the world but as a nation they did no exist they were dead.

     Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 7:4 KJV

As we read in my previous post our Lord is Israels husband and the only way he can marry another is if his first wife dies according  to the law so Israel had to die or Christ would be a law breaker and thats not possible.

Now in these last times we see Israel raised from the dead all that remains is for Israel as a nation to accept Jesus as their King.

Love and peace
Dave

Hello @davetaff,

I understood what you meant by using the word, 'dead', in relation to Israel as a nation, and it's scattering.  However, it is not the word that Scripture uses, and therefore does not justify it's use: especially as you have then proceeded to use it allegorically.

The Holy Spirit does not use the Loammi condition of Israel in this way, and therefore I do not believe that we are justified to do so either. 

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Cariad

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Re: the millenium
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2020, 11:32:55 AM »
'And when He had opened the fifth seal,
.. I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain
.... for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying,
.. How long, O Lord, holy and true,
.... dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood
...... on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them;
.. and it was said unto them,
.... that they should rest yet for a little season,
...... until their fellowservants also and their brethren,
........ that should be killed as they were,
should be fulfilled.'

(Rev 6:9-11) 
 
Hello there,

In Revelation chapter 6 (above) we read of those who had been slain for the Word of God, to whom white robes were given, and the information that they were to rest 'a little season' until their fellow-servants should be killed even as they had been.  These are the overcomers of Revelation 20, then seen when their 'rest' and the 'little season' was finished, and the promises made to them fulfilled (see reply#3, P.1).

Praise God!  For He is faithful that promised.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: the millenium
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 01:15:03 PM »
Hello @davetaff,

I understood what you meant by using the word, 'dead', in relation to Israel as a nation, and it's scattering.  However, it is not the word that Scripture uses, and therefore does not justify it's use: especially as you have then proceeded to use it allegorically.

The Holy Spirit does not use the Loammi condition of Israel in this way, and therefore I do not believe that we are justified to do so either. 

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply but you have not addressed the question of if Israel has not died then Christ cannot marry his bride the church he would be a bigamist a law braker.
Or do you think Christ is not under the law when the man of God will be obedient  to the law.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: the millenium
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 01:39:29 PM »
'And when He had opened the fifth seal,
.. I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain
.... for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying,
.. How long, O Lord, holy and true,
.... dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood
...... on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them;
.. and it was said unto them,
.... that they should rest yet for a little season,
...... until their fellowservants also and their brethren,
........ that should be killed as they were,
should be fulfilled.'

(Rev 6:9-11) 
 
Hello there,

In Revelation chapter 6 (above) we read of those who had been slain for the Word of God, to whom white robes were given, and the information that they were to rest 'a little season' until their fellow-servants should be killed even as they had been.  These are the overcomers of Revelation 20, then seen when their 'rest' and the 'little season' was finished, and the promises made to them fulfilled (see reply#3, P.1).

Praise God!  For He is faithful that promised.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris
Thank you for your post  of course this is a picture of heaven just before the start of the millenium which is when our Lord comes down to claim all those that are his.

           Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Revelation 19:7 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.19.7.KJV   


Here we have the marriage  of the lamb of God to his bride the church

   And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matthew 19:28 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/mat.19.28.KJV     


As we see here Israel has not yet been judged and accepted  so this will part of the work of the millennium but I think we can be confident that Israel  will be accepted grafted  back into their own tree.

Love and Peace
Dave




https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.19.7.KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/mat.19.28.KJV

 

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