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Offline Derek1955

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Hell is for real!
« on: August 09, 2020, 10:07:47 AM »

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Hell is not metaphorical, nor does Christ use hyperbole when He speaks of it.  It is a real place or condition in which the damned find themselves.  Or does Christ obfuscate when He speaks of it?

New Testament references to it are mainly Dominical:  although few words are spoken on the subject from pulpits today.  Whether one considers hell to be a burning lake of sulphur or an eternal separation from God, either ending for a human life is a horrifying concept.   Many blame mistranslation of early manuscripts but if only 10% of the following are accurately recorded representations then Hell is indeed a fearful place. 

Our God of love does not send us to hell, we go there by choice.  If in our lives and wearing the armour of free will given to us by God, we show Him that we do not want Him in our lives and that our desire is for Him to leave us alone, then, sadly, that is exactly what He does.

The references  to hell that I have found in the N.T. And there may be more, are laid out as follows and I find them to be disturbing in the extreme:

Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Matthew 18:9 If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

Matthew 5:29 If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matthew 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, You good-for-nothing,  shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, You fool, shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Matthew 7:13  Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 18:8  If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.

Matthew 25:46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.?

Matthew 12:32  Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 9:47-48  If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Revelation 14:11  And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10  And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Matthew 25:31-33  But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

Luke 13:24-28 Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying,  Lord, open up to us!  Then He will answer and say to you, I do not know where you are from.

Matthew 13:42  and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41  Then He will also say to those on His left, ?Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Revelation 19:20  And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

2 Peter 2:4  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

Matthew 23:33  You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

Revelation 20:13-15   And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone?s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Matthew 8:12  but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.?

Revelation 20:14  Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Matthew 13:47-50  Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous.

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Offline Cariad

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Re: Hell is for real!
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2020, 11:55:08 AM »
Hello Derek1955,

As you will know the word 'Hell' is a translation of four Hebrew and Greek words, Hades, Sheol, Tartaroo and Gehenna.  The references you have given are for the most part a translation of Gehenna, which all refer to the fires of destruction at the end time judgment.  The other words translated, 'Hell', refer largely to the place of the dead, or the grave, except for Tartaroo which is the place of imprisonment for the angels that sinned in the days of Noah (2 Peter 2:4).

This subject all depends on what you believe concerning the immortality of the soul.  We are told in Scripture that the soul that sinneth it shall surely die, so the soul is not immortal, but mortal, therefore subject to corruption and death.  At death the breath of life (spirit) goes back to God Who gave it, and the body goes back to the dust from whence it came.  Those who have died, 'in Christ', are referred to as being, 'asleep in Christ', for they have the hope of resurrection.  Sleep is not used of the unbelieving dead, for though raised to judgment they have no hope of life.

The wages of sin is death, and the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.  Those are the options, 'Death' or 'Life', not eternal conscious punishment.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Christianna

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Re: Hell is for real!
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2020, 10:59:42 PM »
It's been a busy time and that will continue for a week or so. I would still like to put my contribution into this topic.

If hell is a place of torment that doesn't come to an end, then how does "perish" fit in. John 3:16 is one example among many.

Psalm 112:10 it says "melt away", following gnashing of teeth. That is an example of how looking at all the scriptures together, gives the context. Plus prayer asking for the truth, revealed by the Holy Spirit.


Romans 9:3

It was said of how Paul was willing to be accursed on behalf of Israel and that must have been that he was willing to give up his gift of eternal life, on their behalf.  That Moses likewise also said, Exodus 32:32. They couldn't possibly have meant that they were willing to be eternally tortured forever. It is much more believable that they were willing to decease on their behalf,  than to be tormented for all eternity ,with no way out.

If death exists in an eternal state, then it does not come to an end. Therefore it isn't the last enemy to be defeated, 1 Corinthians 15:26, according  to the theory that death is eternal in duration.  That  dismisses that it is eternal in consequence and is totally consumed and annihilated. That is the second death, like a plant that cannot regrow because it's roots have also died ( perished).

Please read: Jude 1:12 and  Job 14:7
For  death and hades will be destroyed , because death will be defeated.   

Offline Cariad

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Re: Hell is for real!
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2020, 12:46:13 PM »
It's been a busy time and that will continue for a week or so. I would still like to put my contribution into this topic.

If hell is a place of torment that doesn't come to an end, then how does "perish" fit in. John 3:16 is one example among many.

Psalm 112:10 it says "melt away", following gnashing of teeth. That is an example of how looking at all the scriptures together, gives the context. Plus prayer asking for the truth, revealed by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 9:3

It was said of how Paul was willing to be accursed on behalf of Israel and that must have been that he was willing to give up his gift of eternal life, on their behalf.  That Moses likewise also said, Exodus 32:32. They couldn't possibly have meant that they were willing to be eternally tortured forever. It is much more believable that they were willing to decease on their behalf,  than to be tormented for all eternity ,with no way out.

If death exists in an eternal state, then it does not come to an end. Therefore it isn't the last enemy to be defeated, 1 Corinthians 15:26, according  to the theory that death is eternal in duration.  That  dismisses that it is eternal in consequence and is totally consumed and annihilated. That is the second death, like a plant that cannot regrow because it's roots have also died ( perished).

Please read: Jude 1:12 and  Job 14:7
For  death and hades will be destroyed , because death will be defeated.   


Hello Christianna,

You make some interesting observations there.  Job 14:7-15 I particularly loved.

When I realised that the middle English word, 'Hell', when chosen by the translators, had the meaning 'to hide away': it made me look at this whole subject quite differently.  The word has been abused and misused so much over time and by tradition that it's meaning has become obliterated.

* Only the translation of the Hebrew 'Gehenna' has any relation to fire, and that is because it refers to the judgment at the end time, and the fire of destruction in place there, which is also a place of the dead, for it is not the living but the dead which are delivered to it's flames for destruction.

* The last enemy 'death', and 'hell' (or the place of the dead) shall be cast into the lake of fire, as you say.

'And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
and death and hell (the grave) delivered up the dead which were in them:
and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell (the grave) were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.'

(Revelation 20:13)   

* So hell cannot be a place of eternal conscious punishment.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell is for real!
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2020, 01:52:05 PM »
Hi
Thanks for the above posts just wondering what dose our God is a consuming fire mean the though of God burning anyone alive cannot be a God of love if we want God to do that we are not loving our neighbours.
What dose being baptised with fire mean do we become part of that consuming fire if so what is its purpose.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Christianna

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Re: Hell is for real!
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2020, 10:01:08 PM »
Hi
Thanks for the above posts just wondering what dose our God is a consuming fire mean the though of God burning anyone alive cannot be a God of love if we want God to do that we are not loving our neighbours.
What dose being baptised with fire mean do we become part of that consuming fire if so what is its purpose.

Love and Peace
Dave

I don't think it's a literal fire but metaphoric of the consequences of continually refusing God. That is death, leading to total death.

Think of rubbish in a fire burning, and in the process of being destroyed. That is something dying but in the process of being destroyed to ashes.

Now not wanting to sound disrespectful. For people are valuable because they are created beings, who God loves.  Yet the behaviour that comes out of them is rubbish, eventhough they are  not rubbish themselves.

The rubbish behaviour is what causes all the evil in the world, in each and everyone of us. All falling short of God's perfect love.

Therefore we were, or are all in a fire. That is because we were, or are  dying and in the process of being destroyed ( perished).

 Unless we are "pulled out" " plucked out" "snatched out" of the fire, through the redemption of Christ. That delivers us from perishing and instead gives us eternal life. See Jude 1:23  Zechariah 3:2

Just some choose to stay in the fire, to  burn up completely, as chaff  (Matthew 3:12) because they prefer darkness to light - for their deeds are exposed. They also love the temporary pleasures of the world. Of course it's not a literal fire.

The fire of God (metaphorically speaking) can also refine,  and can burn up the old nature.


Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell is for real!
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2020, 03:57:23 PM »
I don't think it's a literal fire but metaphoric of the consequences of continually refusing God. That is death, leading to total death.

Think of rubbish in a fire burning, and in the process of being destroyed. That is something dying but in the process of being destroyed to ashes.

Now not wanting to sound disrespectful. For people are valuable because they are created beings, who God loves.  Yet the behaviour that comes out of them is rubbish, eventhough they are  not rubbish themselves.

The rubbish behaviour is what causes all the evil in the world, in each and everyone of us. All falling short of God's perfect love.

Therefore we were, or are all in a fire. That is because we were, or are  dying and in the process of being destroyed ( perished).

 Unless we are "pulled out" " plucked out" "snatched out" of the fire, through the redemption of Christ. That delivers us from perishing and instead gives us eternal life. See Jude 1:23  Zechariah 3:2

Just some choose to stay in the fire, to  burn up completely, as chaff  (Matthew 3:12) because they prefer darkness to light - for their deeds are exposed. They also love the temporary pleasures of the world. Of course it's not a literal fire.

The fire of God (metaphorically speaking) can also refine,  and can burn up the old nature.



Hi Christianna
Thank you for your reply I think the following may help.

Because you have all become dross, therefore, behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 
Eze 22:20  As one gathers silver and bronze and iron and lead and tin into a furnace, to blow the fire on it in order to melt it, so I will gather you in my anger and in my wrath, and I will put you in and melt you. 
Eze 22:21  I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of my wrath, and you shall be melted in the midst of it. 
Eze 22:22  As silver is melted in a furnace, so you shall be melted in the midst of it, and you shall know that I am the LORD; I have poured out my wrath upon you.? ;)     


The Fire is used to remove the dross so that what remains will be pure so is the purpose of Gods consuming fire to remove all evil so what is left is pure.
Love and Peace
Dave
 

Offline John

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Re: Hell is for real!
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2020, 02:44:07 PM »
He'll, what ever you understand by that is very,very real and far worse than we imagine.

Jesus, the second person of the trinity, put off his glory, his almighty power, left the worship of angels to become a baby.
He went through growing up, working for a living , endured the taunts, the beating, the flogging and crucifixion.
He stayed n that cross bearing lutein, shame enduring our punishment in order that we might escape Hell.

This tells us He'll is an Awful place. That  Jesus was prepared to save us tell us how much he loved us.

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