Author Topic: Love me more than father or mother.  (Read 120 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Derek1955

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 42
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Love me more than father or mother.
« on: July 13, 2020, 10:13:41 AM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
In Matthew 10: 37 we are told by Jesus, 'Love me more than your mother and father.' Why on earth would He say those things? Is it that the physical shells we come to hold so dear are ultimately of no intrinsic value after our death, or, as it is with Mammon, any encompassing love for temporal things endangers our total, loving commitment to Christ.

1John 3: 16-18 warns us that we must give freely others. Why? Because in giving to others we receive our growth in righteousness which comes from wanting to give to God and to others. Unless an apple tree bears apples there is little point in it existing apart from its having a purely decorative effect but for all the practical use it is it might as well be uprooted and put to the torch.

Therefore my primary task in life after the worship of God must always be to love and to help others and by so doing I begin the process of freeing myself from the needs and desires of self.  It is in reaching out to others that I allow the seed of my human life, my ego, to fall to the ground and die, and then give birth, and increasingly, life, to the spirit.

There is more, far more, to this faith of ours than I ever dreamed of at the beginning of my journey. The glory that I now know will be ours when the journey is completed will be of such a magnitude that earthly sufferings will be as a sub-atomic particle when compared to all the matter in the universe.

I now know that if we continue in our Christian faith and obey God's commandments to the end of our human lives we will complete the journey home to God and that it is the task of all Christians to make others aware of their destiny and then to help them on their journey. (Luke 8: 16)

We are here to make the load lighter for others on their trek through life. People really do matter, and within the confines of the number of talents we have each been given it is vital that we help others whenever, wherever and however we can. (Galatians 6: 2.)

The journey towards eternal life with God has to be commenced and then run as a Christian to the end of this life if we hope to arrive in the next.   I liken it to a caterpillar struggling to become a butterfly. Should the caterpillar give up its struggles before its time it will die and never know the glorious freedom of flight. In order to be able to become a butterfly, the caterpillar has to disintegrate and decompose down to its very essence, devoid of any shape or awareness. It literally dies. There is nothing left of it. And from this liquid essence, the butterfly begins to put itself together, from scratch.   

Long ago I learned the hard way that there is a world of difference between wanting and doing and that I, like many others still possess the tendency to embrace the easier maxim of 'do what I say, and not what I do' but slowly I am learning.

I've also learned that in this vale of tears the importance of our corporeal life consists neither in its length of days nor in the ease of body, for this is our training ground for the eternal and in it we run the race of our lives with eternal Life with God as the prize. 
Should we cease running then the dreadful result is clearly outlined for us by Jesus in Matthew's Gospel. 13: 41-42.

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Offline Winnie

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 147
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Love me more than father or mother.
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2020, 06:15:07 PM »
'He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me:
and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.'

(Matthew 10:37)   

Hello @Derek1955,

Thank you for another interesting and thought provoking OP.

In regard to Matthew 10:37, I believe that He that is 'fonder' is a better word:  For it is not that we are to love them less that we do, or less than they deserve as our parents, but that our love for God, in Christ, must supersede it.  In fact our love for Him, makes our love for others greater, for as our hearts and minds are occupied with Him, His love is expressed through us to them and to others.  There is no better love that His love, and it is a sacrificial love, which is characterised by the fact that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.   

You made a mistake in your Bible reference for Matthew 10, and I believe the same thing has happened in regard to John 1:14, for it does not appear to apply to your second paragraph. 

You again stress the keeping of the commandments: but though we are saved unto good works, we are not under law that we have to keep the commandments.  We do so because we wish to please Him, and not because they are necessary to secure eternal life: for that is ours 'in Christ', and is not of ourselves.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Christianna

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 948
Re: Love me more than father or mother.
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2020, 11:10:13 AM »
Interesting topic and I often think of the world today that keeps mentioning "love", but there is so much hatred and hostility.


The world's love is conditional, fragile and incomplete.

The world's love is about loving your family, friends, people that are admired, compassion at times with some people but not others- with genuine need.

If we love with the world's love then our love falls short.
If we love the standards of the world, then the love of the Father is not with us. 1 John 2:15

We can retain  the kinship love for our family, with the world's love and standards.

Yet Kinship love is much more powerful, when its from the love of God. As well as loving others.


Jesus said, You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'' Matthew 22:37

For loving God "first", gives the   means of loving others,  because God is love.

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 1 John 4:7

It's not a contradiction to:

If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. " Luke14:26

 It's a different angle. I see it to mean  to love God,over others, and not putting them first by the world's standards and by the world's type of love. This is not the love of God.

For example, if we conform to the world's standards to please our  family, then our love for them is towards them and not God. If however, we put God first and we suffer for not conforming to the world's standards, then we put God first with the love of the Father with us.


Offline Derek1955

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 42
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Love me more than father or mother.
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2020, 02:10:48 PM »
 Thank you Chris for pointing out my errors that have now been corrected.  No excuse except that of age related failing powers of concentration.

In regard to Matthew 10:37, I believe that He that is 'fonder' is a better word:  For it is not that we are to love them less that we do, or less than they deserve as our parents, but that our love for God, in Christ, must supersede it.  In fact our love for Him, makes our love for others greater, for as our hearts and minds are occupied with Him, His love is expressed through us to them and to others.  There is no better love that His love, and it is a sacrificial love, which is characterised by the fact that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Jesus did say we must love Him more which by no means leads me to believe He means we should love them less than we do..

Jesus Himself said in John 14:15 - "If you love Me, keep My Commandments."  Surely we would not remain in Grace if we wilfully chose not to keep them?  I believe that faith and works are like the blades of scissors.  Both are required for the scissors to be effective.

God bless
Derek





Offline Winnie

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 147
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Love me more than father or mother.
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2020, 02:54:04 PM »
@Christianna
@Derek1955,


'As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;
even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.'

(John 15:9)   

Hello there,

The one commandment our Lord gave is  'that ye love one another' (John 13:34-35), Yes?

'A new commandment I give unto you,
That ye love one another;
as I have loved you,
that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples,
if ye have love one to another.'

 
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris


Offline Derek1955

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 42
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Love me more than father or mother.
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2020, 05:25:26 PM »
I believe that all becomes clearer if we think of love as described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13.  This love is totally unlike the over sentimentalised and sexually hyped love portrayed by the media which many have come to accept as the meaning of the word.  We must abide by God's commandment to honour our father and mother but in the final analysis our love for God must overarch any and all other considerations.

Offline Cariad

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 415
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Love me more than father or mother.
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2020, 06:48:06 PM »
I believe that all becomes clearer if we think of love as described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13.  This love is totally unlike the over sentimentalised and sexually hyped love portrayed by the media which many have come to accept as the meaning of the word.  We must abide by God's commandment to honour our father and mother but in the final analysis our love for God must overarch any and all other considerations.
'Charity suffereth long, and is kind;
charity envieth not;
charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly,
.. seeketh not her own,
.... is not easily provoked,
...... thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity,
.. but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things,
.. believeth all things,
.... hopeth all things,
...... endureth all things.
Charity never faileth:

(1 Cor. 13:4-8) 
 
Thank you, Derek.

In  Christ Jesus
Chris

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal