Author Topic: Along with Creation came Time.  (Read 372 times)

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Offline Winnie

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Re: Along with Creation came Time.
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2020, 10:33:29 AM »

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(reply#6) Winnie said:-
Hello there,

Are you saying that both are necessary to secure our eternal security? Both faith and works.

A saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise: and the believer's eternal security is sure; on the basis of the promise of life in Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit, through the ministration of God's word, ensures that the believer grows in grace and truth and in the knowledge of God:  He teaches and chastens him as a Father a child.  We are God's workmanship, created unto good works which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10).

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is a work of faith enough to satisfy James I believe: for Abraham's work of faith was to believe God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness, though he proved that faith by what he did.   Believing God's testimony concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ is all that is required for salvation: for John says in (John 20:31)  'But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.'  Though even believing is a work of the Spirit upon the heart I believe through the entrance of the light of the Gospel.

* I believe that if we are God's workmanship that scenario that you give is not possible.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Derek1955 said:-
It seems that in spite of that which we are told many times to the contrary by Jesus you appear to believe that if we have faith in Him then no matter how badly we might behave in this life we are assured of salvation.   Even the most holy of men are totally devoid of sin and whilst yours is an extremely comforting approach to the question of our salvation it is also a very misleading reading of the Gospels.  Perhaps you would indicate in scripture from where you obtained this particular approach of salvation regardless of behaviour.

Derek

@Derek1955.

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'

(Eph 2:8-10)   

Hello there,

The words, 'salvation regardless of behaviour' are yours and not mine.

For, I have maintained, As the words above declare, that we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

Do you honestly believe that God would begin a work in us without bringing it to completion? Do you think He would allow us to behave as disobedient children without correction?  If that were the case we would be bastards and not sons (Hebrews 12:2).  For His purpose is to conform us to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29), which will be fulfilled in the resurrection, when we shall see Him as He is (1 John 3:2): and as we have born the image of the earthy (Adam), so shall we bear the image of the heavenly (Christ Jesus) (1 Corinthians 15:49).

Praise God!

I believe that the burden of proof lies with you to prove what you maintain:- that our eternal security is secured by both' faith' and 'works', and not by faith alone: that is a gross misrepresentation of the testimony of Scripture.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris



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Offline davetaff

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Re: Along with Creation came Time.
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2020, 10:42:51 AM »
Hi
Just another thought it we Love God and Love our neighbors our fellow man as we we are commanded by our Lord then we will automatically do good works if we see our fellow man in need of help and walk on by then we break our Lord's commandments and we become sinners.

.  Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled       

If we break the law we sin if e break only one law we break the whole law the only difference is it we broke the law in OT times there were consequences of we break the law after Our Lord's sacrifice we can have forgiveness if we repent.

Our Lord said

.     30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. (Compare)

 31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these         


What our Lord is saying is we can keep the whole of we follow these commandments the only way to keep all the law is through LOVE.

Love and peace
Dave

Offline Derek1955

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Re: Along with Creation came Time.
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2020, 01:50:09 PM »

James, the brother of Jesus, martyred at Jerusalem in c. 44 A.D. was the primary authority for the Christian Jews and the canonical letter ascribed to James vehemently opposes the antinomian view that Christians are released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law. 

If we are saved only by grace then please explain Jesus words in Matthew 7. 23. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Offline Winnie

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Re: Along with Creation came Time.
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2020, 02:29:08 PM »
James, the brother of Jesus, martyred at Jerusalem in c. 44 A.D. was the primary authority for the Christian Jews and the canonical letter ascribed to James vehemently opposes the antinomian view that Christians are released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law. 

If we are saved only by grace then please explain Jesus words in Matthew 7. 23. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

'And that because of false brethren unawares brought in,
.. who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus,
.... that they might bring us into bondage:
...... To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour;
........ that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
But of these who seemed to be somewhat,
.. (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person )
.... for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
...... But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me,
.
....... as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
.......... (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision,
............ the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars,
.. perceived the grace that was given unto me,
.... they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship;
...... that we should go unto the heathen,
........ and they unto the circumcision.'

(Galatians 2:4-9)   

Hello @Derek1955,

James wrote to the twelve tribes (the circumcision), scattered abroad throughout the diaspora (James 1:1).   The ministry and the gospel to the uncircumcision was committed to Paul.  Paul, like the God He served, in Christ Jesus, 'accepted no man's person', and James and the twelve 'added nothing to him'.  He allowed no man to take away the liberty that he, and those to whom He ministered the grace of God, had in Christ Jesus their Lord. So neither will I.

* As to your reference to Matthew 7:23:-

'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.'

(Matthew 7:21-23)

* What is the will of the Father?

'And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me,
that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of Him that sent Me,
that every one which seeth the Son,
and believeth on Him,
may have everlasting life:
and I will raise Him up at the last day
.'

(John 6:39)

* Everyone which believeth on the Son will have everlasting life, and Christ Jesus the risen Lord will raise them up at the last day.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris 





Offline Derek1955

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Re: Along with Creation came Time.
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2020, 04:01:49 PM »
Please answer my original question.  My faith in Christ is absolute and so on your understanding I could commit any sin against God or man and still be saved.  Is this correct or not?

Offline Winnie

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Re: Along with Creation came Time.
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2020, 04:20:52 PM »
Please answer my original question.  My faith in Christ is absolute and so on your understanding I could commit any sin against God or man and still be saved.  Is this correct or not?

Hello @Derek1955,

Would you please tell me in what post you posed this question. For if it was reply#5 I answered it in reply#6, with the words, ' I believe that if we are God's workmanship that scenario that you give is not possible.'

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Derek1955

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Re: Along with Creation came Time.
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2020, 04:54:02 PM »
And so we are not to take seriously 1 John 1:10 ?If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.?  When engaging with semantics it is difficult to reach an understanding and so I retire unbowed from the fray.

Offline Winnie

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Re: Along with Creation came Time.
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2020, 08:07:32 PM »
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from: Derek1955 on Today at 04:54:02 PM
And so we are not to take seriously 1 John 1:10 ?If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.?  When engaging with semantics it is difficult to reach an understanding and so I retire unbowed from the fray.
Hello @Derek1955,

You have made no mention previously of 1 John 1:10: and I have certainly not suggested that we are without sin. 

Thank you for your time.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

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