Author Topic: Genesis  (Read 4403 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis
« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2020, 01:36:52 PM »
Hello Dave,

'You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain':  This is a figure of speech, a proverb, with the same meaning as that in Matthew 9:12 'The workman is worthy of his hire'.  Paul was not likening himself, or his fellow workers to oxen.

  Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply  but I think you find that this is a law not a figure of speech  or a proverb it is a law given to the man of God in the first hand to Israel then to our Lord who kept  the whole law.
Who is the workman it can only be the man of God who is spreading the word of God  or traeding out the grain which makes the bread of heaven which is our Lord Jesus Christ 


* The man's sight did not come back perfectly straight away, his sight was blurred, and though looking at men walking, he saw them as though trees walking.  He was healed physically of his blindness.

there is  absolutely  nothing in scripture to support what you say   but there are numerous  verses that likens      men and countries  to trees here is one that puts it beyond dispute.

      ?I am the   true vine, and my Father is   the vinedresser.
John 15:1 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.15.1.ESV     
   

And Israel is likend to the the olive tree the evidence of scripture is overwhelming  and everything  is based in the   creation account in Genesis our Lord said

         For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.
John 5:46 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.46.ESV           
         

So when did Moses start writing about Jesus we know Christ was the beginning  of creation so did Moses write about Christ  in Genesis as I see it Genesis is the history of mankind  from the flood up to thr pleasant  and beyond     



Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our lord and Head.
Chris

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.15.1.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.46.ESV

Offline Cariad

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Re: Genesis
« Reply #97 on: August 09, 2020, 12:30:20 PM »
Quote
@davetaff:-
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply  but I think you find that this is a law not a figure of speech  or a proverb it is a law given to the man of God in the first hand to Israel then to our Lord who kept  the whole law.
Who is the workman it can only be the man of God who is spreading the word of God  or traeding out the grain which makes the bread of heaven which is our Lord Jesus Christ

* Hi Dave.

Yes you are right, the words, ''you shall not muzzle the ox when it treads out the grain' is part of the law: but it also became a proverbial saying within Israel, and it is in this way that it is used in 1 Timothy 5:18, as the context shows:-

'Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour,
especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
For the scripture saith,
'Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn.'
And, 'The labourer is worthy of his reward.'

(1Tmothyi 5:17)   

Quote
davetaff:-
there is  absolutely  nothing in scripture to support what you say   but there are numerous  verses that likens  men and countries  to trees here is one that puts it beyond dispute.

'I am the   true vine, and my Father is   the vinedresser.
John 15:1 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.15.1.ESV 

* Re, my words in reply#95:- ' The man's sight did not come back perfectly straight away, his sight was blurred, and though looking at men walking, he saw them as though trees walking.  He was healed physically of his blindness...' To which you responded: You really should read the context:-

'And He took the blind man by the hand,
and led him out of the town;
and when He had spit on his eyes,
and put His hands upon him,
He asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said,
I see men as trees, walking.
After that He put His hands again upon his eyes,
and made him look up:
and he was restored,
and saw every man clearly.
'

(Mark 8:23-25) 

Quote
davetaff said:-
And Israel is likend to the the olive tree the evidence of scripture is overwhelming  and everything  is based in the   creation account in Genesis our Lord said
                   
* The Olive Tree is used to typify Israel's covenant privileges, and in Romans 11 it is into Israel's covenant privileges that believing gentiles were grafted following Acts 10, until Israel was laid aside (temporarily) at Acts 28.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.15.1.ESV

Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis
« Reply #98 on: August 09, 2020, 02:45:49 PM »
* Hi Dave.

Yes you are right, the words, ''you shall not muzzle the ox when it treads out the grain' is part of the law: but it also became a proverbial saying within Israel, and it is in this way that it is used in 1 Timothy 5:18, as the context shows:-

'Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour,
especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
For the scripture saith,
'Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn.'
And, 'The labourer is worthy of his reward.'

(1Tmothyi 5:17)   

How Israel used this law is irrelevant its what God meant when he Gave it to Moses and to me it means you shall not silence those who are preach the word of God   

* Re, my words in reply#95:- ' The man's sight did not come back perfectly straight away, his sight was blurred, and though looking at men walking, he saw them as though trees walking.  He was healed physically of his blindness...' To which you responded: You really should read the context:-

'And He took the blind man by the hand,
and led him out of the town;
and when He had spit on his eyes,
and put His hands upon him,
He asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said,
I see men as trees, walking.
After that He put His hands again upon his eyes,
and made him look up:
and he was restored,
and saw every man clearly.
'

(Mark 8:23-25) 

and if you read it properly you will see that Christ healed him twiotce first he spit on his eyes and put his hands on his eyes and he saw men as trees walking then Christ laid his hands on him again and he saw clearly are you saying Christ made a mistake the first time so he had to repeat the healing       
                   
* The Olive Tree is used to typify Israel's religious privileges, and in Romans 11 it is into Israel's religious privileges that believing gentiles were grafted following Acts 10, until Israel was laid aside (temporarily) at Acts 28.

the olive tree represents Israel the tree of Knowledge planted in the garden of the lord which is the land flowing with milk and honey which God gave to Israel after they came out of Egypt

I noticed you never answered this
         For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.
John 5:46 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.46.ESV                   

So when did Moses start writing about Jesus we know Christ was the beginning  of creation so did Moses write about Christ  in Genesis as I see it Genesis is the history of mankind  from the flood up to thr pleasant  and beyond       


Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

:051bye:

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.46.ESV

Offline Cariad

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Re: Genesis
« Reply #99 on: August 09, 2020, 03:53:18 PM »
Quote
@davetaff:-
Quote
@Cariad
* Hi Dave.
Yes you are right, the words, ''you shall not muzzle the ox when it treads out the grain' is part of the law: but it also became a proverbial saying within Israel, and it is in this way that it is used in 1 Timothy 5:18 and 1 Corinthians 9, as the context shows:-

'Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour,
especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
For the scripture saith,
'Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn.'
And, 'The labourer is worthy of his reward.'
(1Tmothyi 5:17)   
How Israel used this law is irrelevant its what God meant when he Gave it to Moses and to me it means you shall not silence those who are preach the word of God   

Hello again, Dave,

Perhaps you would show me where it says this in the word of God itself, Dave. The only references I have to muzzling the ox in the law is in Deuteronomy 25:4, and in the NT., in 1 Corinthians 9 and 1 Timothy 5:18, and it does not say anything there to indicate that it should be used in the way you have used it.

Quote
davetaff:
Quote
Cariad said:-
* Re, my words in reply#95:- ' The man's sight did not come back perfectly straight away, his sight was blurred, and though looking at men walking, he saw them as though trees walking.  He was healed physically of his blindness...' To which you responded: You really should read the context:-

'And He took the blind man by the hand,
and led him out of the town;
and when He had spit on his eyes,
and put His hands upon him,
He asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said,
I see men as trees, walking.
After that He put His hands again upon his eyes,
and made him look up:
and he was restored,
and saw every man clearly.'
(Mark 8:23-25)
and if you read it properly you will see that Christ healed him twiotce first he spit on his eyes and put his hands on his eyes and he saw men as trees walking then Christ laid his hands on him again and he saw clearly are you saying Christ made a mistake the first time so he had to repeat the healing       

* Of course not!!!

Quote
davetaff:-                   
Quote
Cariad said:-
* The Olive Tree is used to typify Israel's covenant privileges, and in Romans 11 it is into Israel's covenant privileges that believing gentiles were grafted following Acts 10, until Israel was laid aside (temporarily) at Acts 28.
the olive tree represents Israel the tree of Knowledge planted in the garden of the lord which is the land flowing with milk and honey which God gave to Israel after they came out of Egypt

* The Olive Tree represents Israel's covenant privileges.  What you say is nonsense.

Quote
davetaff
I noticed you never answered this
         For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.
John 5:46 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.46.ESV                   

So when did Moses start writing about Jesus we know Christ was the beginning  of creation so did Moses write about Christ  in Genesis as I see it Genesis is the history of mankind  from the flood up to thr pleasant  and beyond   

* The Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of all Scripture.  However Moses wrote of the Lord prophetically in Deuteronomy 18:15-19, see also Acts 3:22 and Acts 7:37.

This is the end for me, Dave, I will not respond to any more of the products of your imagination.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.46.ESV

Offline Deborah

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Re: Genesis
« Reply #100 on: August 09, 2020, 06:37:35 PM »
I've had a very busy week, so I've fallen behind you a bit. Will try to catch up...

Genesis 2:8-14

The universe is God's Temple. And just as the temple in Jerusalem had outer courts and an inner sanctuary, so does the universe. Eden was the inner sanctuary, the 'holy of holies' where God's presence was manifested (see Genesis 3:8 ). Here was complete order; outside was (relative) chaos.

Where was Eden? On a mountain-top, apparently (as four rivers flow from it inn different directions); but the geography bears no relationship to the earth as we know it - the Tigris and Euphrates are in Mesopotamia, but Cush is in Africa! So this is evidently symbolic: Eden is the source of all life, goodness and prosperity in the world.

Humans are mortal (made from dust); but inside the sanctuary (Eden) is the source of immortality - represented by the tree of life. The tree of knowledge is also representative: of the moral choice that is fundamental to being in the image of God.

"Blessed is the one who always trembles before God,
but whoever hardens their heart falls into trouble." (Proverbs 28:14)

Offline Deborah

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Re: Genesis
« Reply #101 on: August 09, 2020, 06:42:00 PM »
Genesis 2:15-17

Adam was commissioned to work as God's priest and steward, caring for God's holy dwelling-place and guarding the garden against intrusion. (This would include keeping it in an ordered, park-like state, like any other temple garden). In this priestly role he represented the whole human race (so we don't have to assume that he was the only biological human in existence at this time). And this is why his actions had such significance for the whole human race.

But he was also 'on probation'. Animal behaviour is a simple product of instincts and urges; Man alone has been given a moral choice. Life faces us with a vast number of moral choices; but in Eden, all were focussed into one single negative command - a small thing, and therefore a true test of Adam's obedience.  In the context of God's lavish provision, Adam did not need to break this one prohibition. So would he trust and obey God's word, or would he not?
"Blessed is the one who always trembles before God,
but whoever hardens their heart falls into trouble." (Proverbs 28:14)

Offline Deborah

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Re: Genesis
« Reply #102 on: August 09, 2020, 06:48:07 PM »
Genesis 2:18-22

Adam had a relationship with God, but this was not enough. He needed another human being to relate to - somebody on his own level (for the word 'helper' carries no connotations of inferiority or servitude; in the OT, it is most often applied to God!). And so God set out to create the woman - not primarily for childbearing, but for companionship and partnership, and to share Adam's priestly role.

Why this exercise of naming the animals? Because Man needed to discover for himself that he was 'different' from the rest of the creation, and was therefore 'alone'. His need could be met only by another person like himself - and yet not like himself - not his duplicate, but his complementary opposite.

God placed Adam in a trance-like state (like Abraham in Genesis 15:12), in which he saw himself 'cut in half'. It was a visionary experience, not a surgical procedure! The fact that woman was created from part of the man means that neither sex is truly complete without the other; they are interdependent (I Corinthians 11:7-9). They complement each other not only physically, but also psychologically and emotionally.

"Blessed is the one who always trembles before God,
but whoever hardens their heart falls into trouble." (Proverbs 28:14)

Offline Cariad

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Re: Genesis
« Reply #103 on: August 09, 2020, 06:59:57 PM »
Replies #101 and #102

Hello @Deborah,

I never thought I would have to ask you for a scriptural basis for the beliefs you enter, but I must, for where is all this coming from?  It all seems like a story from a children's book of fantasy.  Where has Deborah gone? First davetaff and now you!! On the strength of your reply I will either leave the forum or stay, for I don't want to be in this position any more.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

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