Author Topic: Israel  (Read 680 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2020, 01:59:47 PM »
Hi
Now we have established that Israel is God's son and as such he is the first Adam of this creation and as such he would be created in the image of his Father.
Maybe we should think of the births of God's son as we would the birth of a baby God impregnate Abraham he has two children the egg splits in two then it splits again then it grows into the twelve tribes then God places it into the womb of Egypt to grow where it becomes a nation then.

.   
.  Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt     


The nation of Israel is born through the waters of the red sea bit like a normal birth they were born into the wilderness were they were totally dependent on their heavenly Father as any young child would be.
But the child rebels through idol worship and as such all those who came out of Egypt died in the wilderness except two it's only them and the new generation which will enter the promised land the land flowing with milk and honey the new Eden.
The death of the first generation and the younger generation mirror the death and resurrection of the last Adam.

Love and peace
Dave

Offline Serenity

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Re: Israel
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2020, 03:29:07 PM »
Quote
Now we have established that Israel is God's son and as such he is the first Adam of this creation and as such he would be created in the image of his Father.

Actually no this as such is not established that Israel is the first Adam.  Creation equally is not established to be after the flood because both the first Adam and creation is established in the bible prior to Jews and the flood.

My as such is that i cannot go further into anything with such a huge difference in the foundations of what is being posted here.

🔥💖GOD CAN USE ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, ANYONE, ANYHOW, FOR HIS GOOD AND PURPOSE 💖🔥

Offline Winnie

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Re: Israel
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2020, 04:04:35 PM »
Hello @davetaff,

I agree with @Serenity.

This goes beyond mere speculation into the realm of error: for it is not Biblical fact. Therefore I want no part in it.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2020, 04:06:05 PM »
Actually no this as such is not established that Israel is the first Adam.  Creation equally is not established to be after the flood because both the first Adam and creation is established in the bible prior to Jews and the flood.

My as such is that i cannot go further into anything with such a huge difference in the foundations of what is being posted here.



Hi Serenity
Thank you for your reply are saying the scripture I quoted is Wrong if so What dose it mean if it dose not mean that Israel is God Son.
I would also ask you to consider the following.

2Co_5:17  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Gal_6:15  For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.     


So Christ is a new creation creation of what certainly not everything he is only a new creation of man in the image of God the Last Adam so who was the first Adam.
If God destroyed everything with the flood this included Adam Noah was not Adam  then we have this.

1Co 15:45  Thus it is written, ?The first man Adam became a living being?; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 
1Co 15:46  But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 
1Co 15:47  The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 
1Co 15:48  As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 
1Co 15:49  Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.      


If I am right then there will be many likenesses between Israel and Christ and there are when Christ came in the flesh he bore many likenesses to Israel.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2020, 04:18:16 PM »
Hello @davetaff,

I agree with @Serenity.

This goes beyond mere speculation into the realm of error: for it is not Biblical fact. Therefore I want no part in it.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply If what I have said is in error please show me what is wrong when the scriptures says.

   Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt     

Then i believe what the scriptures say and it is a plain fact that Israel is Gods Son unless you have a better explanation  and if the first Adam died before the flood the Israel is the Adam of the flesh which comes first.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2020, 11:45:49 AM »
Hi
Let us look at it from a different perspective what are the similarities between Israel and Christ.

.     
How Does The History Of Israel Reflect The Life Of Messiah Jesus?
Israel   The Children of Israel journeyed to Egypt to escape certain death at the hands of famine.
(Genesis 42:1-47:12)
Messiah   Yeshua (Jesus) and His family fled into Egypt to escape certain death at the hands of King Herod.
(Matthew 2:13-18)
    
Israel   The Israelites were baptized in the Red Sea as they fled from the Egyptian army.
(Exodus 14:10-13)
Messiah   Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist at the start of His earthly ministry.
(Matthew 3:13-17)
    
Israel   The Jewish Nation wandered in the wilderness for 40 years on their way to the Promised Land.
(Exodus 16:1-17:7)
Messiah   Yeshua spent 40 days in the wilderness, being tempted by Satan, before He began His earthly ministry.
(Matthew 4:1-11)
    
Israel   Moses went up a mountain (Mt. Sinai) to get the Ten Commandments from God.
(Exodus 19:1-23:33)
Messiah   Yeshua delivered His most famous sermon from a mountain (the Mount of Olives), during which He pronounced the ten blessings known as The Beatitudes. (Matthew chapters 5 through 7)
    
Israel   When Moses came down from the Mountain after getting the Ten Commandments, His face was shining with the Glory of God. (Exodus 34:29-35)
Messiah   When Yeshua went up on the Mount of Transfiguration, His face shone like the sun.
(Matthew 17:2)     


I copied this from the net http://jewishroots.net/library/messianic/similarities_between_israel_and_jesus.html

So I would not have to write so much there are other similarities as well when they both came back from Egypt Christ for forty days and Israel for forty years the words of our Lord seem very appropriate.

.     Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. View more

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days   


Another thing is Israel had twelve tribes our Lord had twelve apostles one of which Judas Iscariot was rejected and in the list of tribes in revelations Dan is missing when Judas was rejected two other's were taken in in place of him in Israel the two sons of Joseph were taken in.

All this can not be coincides.

Love and peace
Dave
http://jewishroots.net/library/messianic/similarities_between_israel_and_jesus.html

Offline Serenity

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Re: Israel
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2020, 02:32:36 PM »
None of what you have said since i posted supports the first Adam being Israel or Creation being after the flood.

However Scripture and not conjecture in Genesis does clearly state Adam during the creation process.  I do not see how you can move onto any other perspective or just brush this away.  This is why as such i cannot really discuss anything further along when the foundations are spurious at best.
🔥💖GOD CAN USE ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, ANYONE, ANYHOW, FOR HIS GOOD AND PURPOSE 💖🔥

Offline Christianna

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Re: Israel
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2020, 01:06:34 AM »
In looking at the internet I can see that the first Adam has been referred to be Israel before, by a few other people. Therefore there are other people believing this. Just I can't see anything in scripture to back that up.

I'm no expert with this. I originally assumed the garden of Eden was in Israel but don't think that has been concluded. It has been believed to be in Iraq through the identification of  two rivers, and also others believe the garden of Eden to be in Israel, through the identification of a river in Jerusalem, that has been considered to be reshaped after the flood.

Therefore it's inconclusive.


In scripture, Jacob and Esau were described to be two nations inside the womb.Genesis 25:23

Jacob later to be called "Israel", and Esau being described as "Edon". Genesis 35:10 Genesis 36:1

Coming back to Adam. Please look carefully at Genesis 5:1-2
" This is the book of genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God . "

@davetaff I understand in some ways where you are coming from, because humankind became fallen and will not be in the likeness of  God, unless and until they are perfected in Christ. 2 Corinthians 3:18

Somehow that seems more so, than before Adam and Eve fell.
One example is it would be impossible to be fallen, in our eternal transformation.

It's so deep and may mean something to you. Probably something that is too deep to put into words but in trying can make you overthink and overspiritualise  some scriptures out of context, and then being spot on and insightful over other scriptures. Giving out some gems.

Just we need to stick to what the bible actually  says and keep it simple. Otherwise it can lead to a lot of misunderstandings.



 

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