Author Topic: Do angels have free will?  (Read 2189 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2020, 12:16:50 PM »

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Hi
Just thinking about the scripture Christianna has given.

.   9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance     

If this is the Fathers will and I believe it is and when we pray we say

.   Luk 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth         

When we say the words thy will be done is this a statement of fact not a request and if God's will is everyone will come to repentance how will this be achieved.

I believe in the millennial reign of Christ he will be king of kings he will reign with all those who are in him who have been reborn through baptism not only with water but with fire all those who are in Christ will become the lake of fire.
We must remember that there are untold millions who have never heard of the God of the bible or Jesus Christ our job in the millennium will be to educate all these people so they can use there free will to repent and he saved or to accept the second death which will not be being burned alive the God of Love could not do such an horrific thing.

Of to find my tin hat

Love and peace
Dave

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Online strobe

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2020, 12:37:30 PM »
'And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;
and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying,
neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away.'

(Revelation 21:4)

Hello @Scrobe,

This is the description of what will be the condition within the New Jerusalem which has come down to the earth from heaven.  For those who have attained to it, the Overcomers, there will be no more death, sorrow or crying, and no more pain.  Yet that is not so for those in verse 8, who are described as the fearful (or faithless) and the unbelieving (abominable, murderers etc.,) for they will experience a second death, having been raised for judgement and been found wanting, so will die again.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
So God raises people from the dead so He can kill them?
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline Winnie

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2020, 01:10:43 PM »
So God raises people from the dead so He can kill them?

Hello @strobe,

That is your own interpretation of events. God judges, with true justice before either life is granted, or sentence passed.  Romans 2 is worth reading in relation to this.  The fire spoken of is for the purpose of final destruction, not eternal conscious punishment.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Online strobe

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2020, 01:22:24 PM »
Hello @strobe,

That is your own interpretation of events. God judges, with true justice before either life is granted, or sentence passed.  Romans 2 is worth reading in relation to this.  The fire spoken of is for the purpose of final destruction, not eternal conscious punishment.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
No sir,
It's not my interpretation of events at all. Very far from it. I am trying to understand your interpretation.
I believe in neither eternal conscious torment nor in final destruction.
I believe in the total victory of Christ over sin and death.
I think I'm with Dave on this. In fact there's only one bone I have to pick with Dave, it bothers me when I can't find anything to disagree with someone about. I will just have to keep looking there's bound to be something.
Warm regards x
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Online Christianna

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2020, 01:35:14 PM »
So God raises people from the dead so He can kill them?

I understand what you are saying, and thought of this myself.

In searching scripture, I look for the hope of people getting more opportunities to turn to Christ, beyond the grave .

I  know of Christ preaching to the spirits, is often used to describe this possibility, but it probably has another explanation.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring  us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,  who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 1 Peter 3:18-20


At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,  and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10-11

There could be more but they are all open to other explanations.

There are also other scriptures, that do not give those other scriptures more credibility.

Two resurrections
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment. Hebrews 9:27

Looking at another angle, we are all judged any way, regardless of whether we have redemption or not.1 Corinthians 3:15

Having said that the
Judgement from God should not be underestimated for what it is. I think that it is and that's one reason why so many put so  much emphasis on an interpretation that is being tortured for eternity, as if the judgement of God is not enough.
Isn't it more that God raises people up to judge them. 


The judgement of God is  a time of bringing injustices to light.

 An innocent person who was falsely accused, would need to see their accusers being shown the truth. That's an example, of why all  will be raised from the dead, in a way we can relate to.

There will be those who did things and thought they got away with it.

If there was no forthcoming judgement of  God,  then more people would do more bad things now, on a scale like the world has never seen

These are reasons but
also many of God's people will be judged over  things like that, where they falsely accused others, or got away with things  but be saved, as if escaping fire.

I like to think it's a time of resolution and more opportunities for people without Christ to turn to Christ, but maybe still many will refuse, which stays consistent with descriptions of many perishing and other living forever more.

It's an area where we know God knows all and will judge. Not all totally ferociously but compassionately as well. Only for people to know the fierce side and not forget that because it's very relevant and God is very fair.

@strobe you opened up an area that is shrouded in mystery and is very deep and thought provoking.

Online Christianna

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2020, 01:40:41 PM »
Hello @strobe,

That is your own interpretation of events. God judges, with true justice before either life is granted, or sentence passed.  Romans 2 is worth reading in relation to this.  The fire spoken of is for the purpose of final destruction, not eternal conscious punishment.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Totally agree that the fire is the total destruction and not the eternal conscious punishment. In looking at all scriptures in the bible and seeing them together, that gives a complete picture. Thank you @Winnie because you study the scriptures diligently.

Offline Winnie

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2020, 02:00:43 PM »
No sir,
It's not my interpretation of events at all. Very far from it. I am trying to understand your interpretation.
I believe in neither eternal conscious torment nor in final destruction.
I believe in the total victory of Christ over sin and death.
I think I'm with Dave on this. In fact there's only one bone I have to pick with Dave, it bothers me when I can't find anything to disagree with someone about. I will just have to keep looking there's bound to be something.
Warm regards x

Hello @strobe,

- The remark you made:-, 'So God raises people from the dead so He can kill them?' was what I referred to as your interpretation.  For I thought it unjust. 

- The victory of Christ over sin and death that you refer to, is appropriated by those who place their trust in Him:  it is not the possession of those who do not believe
   on Him as their Saviour and Lord.

- I am glad that you do not subscribe to the belief in eternal conscious punishment for the unbeliever.  However you would have to close your eyes to much that the
  Bible has to say in order to deny the fact of final judgement and the consequences of sin for the unbelieving.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Theo

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2020, 03:00:52 PM »

I don't believe that anyone will be consciously suffering for an eternity, but will literally perish. As carefully looking at scripture tells us. Yet those who respond to Christ will have eternal life.

For the present (and I have long held the same inclination) Annihilation sits more comfortably than "eternal torment in the lake of fire for anyone other than the Devil. the Beast, and the False Prophet", and also sits more comfortably than Ultimate Universal Reconciliation for everyone else.
Its what I call the 'happy medium' (and no, I'm not a spiritualist loopy: ).

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