Author Topic: Do angels have free will?  (Read 2187 times)

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Offline strobe

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2020, 08:26:54 PM »

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'For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.'

(1 Corinthians 15:21-23) 

Hello @strobe,

The context of the verse you referenced, makes clear that it is they that are Christ's (or who are 'In Christ') who will be raised at His coming.  Only those in Christ will have 'life through His Name'.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Why stop quoting there?
24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection", it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

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Offline Winnie

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2020, 08:31:21 PM »
Why stop quoting there?
24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For ?God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.? But when it says, ?all things are put in subjection,? it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

Hello @Stobe,

I quoted what was necessary to make the point that I made, to which you have made no answer.  The fact that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, is immaterial in regard to who are 'in Adam' and who are 'in Christ.'  For not all 'in Adam' will comprise part of the 'All in Christ'.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline strobe

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2020, 09:25:28 PM »
Hello @Stobe,

I quoted what was necessary to make the point that I made, to which you have made no answer.  The fact that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, is immaterial in regard to who are 'in Adam' and who are 'in Christ.'  For not all 'in Adam' will comprise part of the 'All in Christ'.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
I beg your pardon. I'll see what I can do to answer
The 1st epistle of John has some good verses on this, for example:
2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Also Revelation 21
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
Love and peace!
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline Winnie

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2020, 10:16:35 AM »
I beg your pardon. I'll see what I can do to answer
The 1st epistle of John has some good verses on this, for example:
2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Also Revelation 21
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
Love and peace!

Thank you for responding, @strobe,  and with Scripture, which is a delight.

'My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And He is the propitiation for our sins:
and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.'

(1 John 2:1-2)

* Yes, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.   The sacrifice for sin was not only for those who believed on His name, but for the world. However later on in the chapter there are these words, 'And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.' ( 1 John 2:17).  The propitiatiary work of Christ was for all men everywhere, but not all would believe and receive it.

'He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,
that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for His seed remaineth in him:
and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.'

(1 John 3:8-9)   

* Here again there are two categories, he that is of the devil, and he that is born of God.

'And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.'

(1 John 4:14) 

* Yes the salvation of God secured by His precious Son, was for all men, but not all will confess that Jesus is the Son of God, and thereby enter into salvation.

* Regarding Revelation 21:2-5, that you quoted in full, which is a beautiful glimpse of the New Jerusalem, as the tabernacle of God, which comes to earth, in which God will dwell with men.  However they shall be 'His people', and He will be their God.  However in the verses which follow (vv.7-8) we see those who are unbelieving and what will happen to them. 

* The context always reveals the true state of affairs.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Christianna

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2020, 10:33:18 AM »
They are wonderful scriptures and they give out so much blessing.

God is patient not wanting anyone to perish but wanting all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
That is the will of God.

Yet sadly there are many who refuse to respond back to God through the gospel, by their heart and plenty in scripture tells us they will perish.

I don't believe that anyone will be consciously suffering for an eternity, but will literally perish. As carefully looking at scripture tells us. Yet those who respond to Christ will have eternal life.

Offline strobe

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2020, 11:38:42 AM »
Thank you for responding, @strobe,  and with Scripture, which is a delight.

'My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And He is the propitiation for our sins:
and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.'

(1 John 2:1-2)

* Yes, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.   The sacrifice for sin was not only for those who believed on His name, but for the world. However later on in the chapter there are these words, 'And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.' ( 1 John 2:17).  The propitiatiary work of Christ was for all men everywhere, but not all would believe and receive it.

'He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,
that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for His seed remaineth in him:
and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.'

(1 John 3:8-9)   

* Here again there are two categories, he that is of the devil, and he that is born of God.

'And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.'

(1 John 4:14) 

* Yes the salvation of God secured by His precious Son, was for all men, but not all will confess that Jesus is the Son of God, and thereby enter into salvation.

* Regarding Revelation 21:2-5, that you quoted in full, which is a beautiful glimpse of the New Jerusalem, as the tabernacle of God, which comes to earth, in which God will dwell with men.  However they shall be 'His people', and He will be their God.  However in the verses which follow (vv.7-8) we see those who are unbelieving and what will happen to them. 

* The context always reveals the true state of affairs.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Thanks! If you don't mind I'd like to concentrate on just one of these for the moment.
How is it that Rev 21:4 says death shall be no more and then in verse 8 it says that there is a second death?
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline Winnie

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2020, 11:45:12 AM »
They are wonderful scriptures and they give out so much blessing.

God is patient not wanting anyone to perish but wanting all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
That is the will of God.

Yet sadly there are many who refuse to respond back to God through the gospel, by their heart and plenty in scripture tells us they will perish.

I don't believe that anyone will be consciously suffering for an eternity, but will literally perish. As carefully looking at scripture tells us. Yet those who respond to Christ will have eternal life.


Thank you, @Christianna,

Beautifully stated.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Winnie

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2020, 11:57:11 AM »
Thanks! If you don't mind I'd like to concentrate on just one of these for the moment.
How is it that Rev 21:4 says death shall be no more and then in verse 8 it says that there is a second death?

'And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;
and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying,
neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away.'

(Revelation 21:4)

Hello @Scrobe,

This is the description of what will be the condition within the New Jerusalem which has come down to the earth from heaven.  For those who have attained to it, the Overcomers, there will be no more death, sorrow or crying, and no more pain.  Yet that is not so for those in verse 8, who are described as the fearful (or faithless) and the unbelieving (abominable, murderers etc.,) for they will experience a second death, having been raised for judgement and been found wanting, so will die again.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

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