Author Topic: Do angels have free will?  (Read 2198 times)

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Offline Winnie

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2020, 10:49:53 PM »

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Hi Winnie,  :D
I didn't mean in the context of sin because in God there is no darkness at all. He doesn't create sin. It was more in terms of calamity and allows things to happen, for good purposes.


Hi @Christianna,

Please know that my entry was by no means a correction of you.  I was just grateful to have the opportunity to say this in connection with this verse, because I have seen it used in a wrong way in the past.

So, thank you for bringing it to light.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

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Offline Christianna

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2020, 07:29:10 AM »
Hi @Christianna,

Please know that my entry was by no means a correction of you.  I was just grateful to have the opportunity to say this in connection with this verse, because I have seen it used in a wrong way in the past.

So, thank you for bringing it to light.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you @Winnie for explaining. I'm so glad you are posting.Yet I have to work and support a relative, they need my help.

Offline Christianna

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2020, 10:08:11 AM »
Hi
Do angels have free will if they don't it would mean God resides in a place where no one can love him is that possible for the God of love.
Angels obey God out of love freely given from the heart why did he put the tree of knowledge in the garden he answers this himself


 22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever     


To be in the image of God man needs the knowledge of good and evil the reason being we need to choose the good of our own free will as do the angels.

The tree of knowledge is the law given to Israel the law tells us what sin is I also believe it's a lesson from God that the law and punishment does not work people still break the law.

But what will work and does work is Love with love the law becomes obsolete.

A few wise words from St Paul

.    The Way of Love
13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

             


Love and peace
Dave



Now just thought of this and this is the answer. Love and to be able to love freely, without control. As simple as that and nobody needs to assume that all the deep philosophical thoughts haven't been thought of before, in this expression.
No one needs to make assumptions because on the Rock of Christ , He knows our thoughts and hearts in ways that no human can see or know about.

Love wins.

No eye has seen nor no ear heard the plans for those who truly love the Lord. With those who truly responded from the love of the Lord, in Christ Jesus.

The future:
In a universe where there is no trappings.

Thank you @davetaff


Just thought of this.
Love is the answer. As long as it's the love of Christ. For in  Him is all truth and completeness.

The future:
In a universe where there are no trappings, where creation chose to respond to the love of Christ.
Love wins and spot on with this @davetaff.

No eye has seen and no ear has heard the plans for those who love the Lord.

Pure and simple as that.
At the end of the day it's Christ's assessment of us that counts not human assumption  For Christ is the complete truth
The Lord knows us and our lives in ways humans don't know.
He knows our hearts and our thoughts and no one by human measures can know them in the same way, nor assume that we haven't thought of deep philosophical things before. Yet it's love that seeks the truth and how Christ would want us to know and in all His different creative ways.


Offline Winnie

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2020, 09:33:28 PM »
Why do you think He didn't set such boundaries to prevent Adam and Eve falling in the first place? He knew that it would happen from the start and the world was created with that in mind. Everything is planned out from the beginning of time and so Satan and his angels must be an essential tool in that plan. I can't accept that God is taken by surprise, He is in control of everything and when it is all over we will have complete free will and be pure, justified and holy. I think I am giving away my view on the issue: angels only do the will of God, nothing more and nothing less, humanity will be in the image of God.

Jesus Christ,
'Who is gone into heaven,
and is on the right hand of God;
angels and authorities and powers
being made subject unto Him.'

(1 Peter 3:22)   

Hi @strobe,

God has foreknowledge.  He knows the end from the beginning.  So yes, He is not taken by surprise.  Yet, if the angels were doing God's will when they sinned would God not be unjust in punishing them? (2 Peter 2:4)

The only humanity that will be 'in the image of God', as you maintain, are they which will be 'conformed to the image of His Son', for He is 'the image of God' (Romans 8:29 & 2 Corinthians 4:4).

In Christ Jesus
Chris


Offline strobe

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2020, 03:00:46 PM »
Jesus Christ,
'Who is gone into heaven,
and is on the right hand of God;
angels and authorities and powers
being made subject unto Him.'

(1 Peter 3:22)   

Hi @strobe,

God has foreknowledge.  He knows the end from the beginning.  So yes, He is not taken by surprise.  Yet, if the angels were doing God's will when they sinned would God not be unjust in punishing them? (2 Peter 2:4)

The only humanity that will be 'in the image of God', as you maintain, are they which will be 'conformed to the image of His Son', for He is 'the image of God' (Romans 8:29 & 2 Corinthians 4:4).

In Christ Jesus
Chris
But Paul also said as in Adam all die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive. Yes, everyone (1 Cor 15:22). Those who have been born again in this life will be at the wedding feast in His millennial rule, others will have to go through the judgement but eventually will be reconciled. I accept that verse was only referring to people but I couldn't worship a God that would abandon anyone, even the devil, for an eternity. That would be what I think of as unjust.
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Theo

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2020, 05:39:46 PM »
But Paul also said as in Adam all die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive. Yes, everyone (1 Cor 15:22). Those who have been born again in this life will be at the wedding feast in His millennial rule, others will have to go through the judgement but eventually will be reconciled. I accept that verse was only referring to people but I couldn't worship a God that would abandon anyone, even the devil, for an eternity. That would be what I think of as unjust.
Hi Strobe,
I am loathe to ever say never, but at this point in my walk of faith I will it will take a significant divine intervention for me to align with your degree of 'Universal Reconciliation' for "the Devil".
Do you know of any others who go as far as you do?

Offline strobe

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2020, 07:29:41 PM »
Hi Strobe,
I am loathe to ever say never, but at this point in my walk of faith I will it will take a significant divine intervention for me to align with your degree of 'Universal Reconciliation' for "the Devil".
Do you know of any others who go as far as you do?
Hi Theo,
Thanks for the reply/question and for the choral reference earlier. All much appreciated! I was thinking you were referring to the classic and well known How Great Thou Art but I guess it was something a little more obscure.
Here's my thinking. Ultimate universal reconciliation/redemption/salvation of mankind, however you or anyone wants to call it is something I will stake my soul upon. God would not be God if He failed to have His will done and His will is that none shall perish and all shall come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). As far as it extending to the devil I am a little more unsure, I have heard the idea broached before but I can't give you any names or references I'm afraid. It's something that makes sense to me and I want to explore the idea here if possible.
Love, peace, shalom and warm regards,
StRobe x
StRobe - As in Adam ... so in Christ

Offline Winnie

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Re: Do angels have free will?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2020, 08:18:55 PM »
But Paul also said as in Adam all die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive. Yes, everyone (1 Cor 15:22). Those who have been born again in this life will be at the wedding feast in His millennial rule, others will have to go through the judgement but eventually will be reconciled. I accept that verse was only referring to people but I couldn't worship a God that would abandon anyone, even the devil, for an eternity. That would be what I think of as unjust.

'For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.'

(1 Corinthians 15:21-23) 

Hello @strobe,

The context of the verse you referenced, makes clear that it is they that are Christ's (or who are 'In Christ') who will be raised at His coming.  Only those in Christ will have 'life through His Name'.

In Christ Jesus
Chris





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