Strange christianity

[TJ's]

so lets get it right @jaybird - you believe in reincarnation ?

You have began linking to this bernard post ..


re:

How accurite is it, the early christians believed in reincarnation, according to several resource. Some still do, saying God works slowly, resurrection is reincarnation not instant.
How strange.

Bible they quote John the Baptist was Elijah.
Job 1:21 in some older versions
The man born blind. The disiples asked if he sinned or his parents sinned, to be born blind.

Reincarnation 

And

James talking about "wheel of birth" which is a reincarnation phrase.

Is your reincarnation into animals and insects or into higher beings or into inanimate objects ?

thanks TJ

[jaybird]

Hi Jaybird
Thanks for your reply but it won't do I would like chapter and verse please it's what God says that counts not what we say thank you.

Love and peace
Dave

its not me saying these things, its the bible. these passages are pretty common sense understanding, in order to flip them on their head and say they have nothing to do with reincarnation or pre existence is when you get into the "we say" because people dont like it. i assumed you knew where these were, i guess your new to the faith, so anyway here they are again with the places to look.

Pre existance ? (not reincarnation)

Soul goes back Ecclesiastes 12:7

known before Jeremiah 1:5

rebirth / reincarnation

Elijah comes back  NT gospels (if you dont know about Elijah . . )

wheel of birth James 3:6

sinned before birth John 9 1-3

church councils https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_seven_ecumenical_councils
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_seven_ecumenical_councils

[jaybird]

so lets get it right @jaybird - you believe in reincarnation ?

You have began linking to this bernard post ..


re:


And


Is your reincarnation into animals and insects or into higher beings or into inanimate objects ?

thanks TJ

i believe i existed before birth. im not really sure how because these are answers the church cant usually give.

[davetaff]

its not me saying these things, its the bible. these passages are pretty common sense understanding, in order to flip them on their head and say they have nothing to do with reincarnation or pre existence is when you get into the "we say" because people dont like it. i assumed you knew where these were, i guess your new to the faith, so anyway here they are again with the places to look.

Pre existance ? (not reincarnation)

Soul goes back Ecclesiastes 12:7
       Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/ecc.12.7.KJV     

Nothing here to suggest reincarnation just the soul spirit returns to God who gave no mention of sending it out again.

known before Jeremiah 1:5
    Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,  Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Jeremiah 1:4-‬5 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jer.1.4-5.KJV       

Again nothing to do with reincarnation God tells us he knows   the end from the beginning   and he chooses whom he will to do his will this is not reincarnation.       
 rebirth / reincarnation

Elijah comes back  NT gospels (if you dont know about Elijah . . )
   And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus.
Mark 9:4 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mrk.9.4.ESV         

But this is not reincarnation as I understand it reincarnation is being born and dying then being   reborn and this carries on for ever which would mean there is no resurrection because we are always alive

wheel of birth James 3:6
      And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.
James 3:6 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.3.6.ESV     

What this has to do with reincarnation is beyond me you will need to explain

sinned before birth John 9 1-3

       Jesus answered, ?It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.
John 9:3 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.9.3.ESV       

Again nothing to indicate reincarnation

church councils https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_seven_ecumenical_councils

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/1/ecc.12.7.KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jer.1.4-5.KJV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mrk.9.4.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.3.6.ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.9.3.ESV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_seven_ecumenical_councils

[jaybird]

Love and Peace
Dave

lets start with this one as i think i see the problem:

1As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2And his disciples asked him, ?Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?? 3Jesus answered, ?It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

first of all when you replied you clipped the part about reincarnation out. i think this is why you dont see, you look at the passages but in your mind your telling yourself "their is no reincarnation" and its ok to think this as most churches say this, but what men "say" is not the bible.

you cant sin before you are born, only in another life, the 12 knew this, they were taught by Jesus.

[jaybird]

The Second Council of Constantinople was held in the 550s. This is an important event on the subject at hand. At the time there were many bishops teaching pre existence and soul migration some say close to half, emperor Justinian hand picked about 150 bishops that was against and only allowed 6 that were for. There is speculation that Justinian and his wife believed in the idea and wanted to hide it from the masses, Justinian belief is unclear but his wife Theodora more than likely did believe and it is well known she got what she wanted.  The personal beliefs of the emperor may be unclear but its very clear the council was bias and did not represent the majority of believers.
The reason we focus on the emperor and not the pope or bishops is because Justinian was notoriously known for micro managing and meddling in religious affairs.
Its also important to note Justinian was known for cruelty, corruption, corrupting the priesthood and was not well liked by the people.
Up to this council the teachings of Origen were loved by the people, he was considered the greatest theologian of his day, a devoted believer. After this council his memory becomes that of a heretic to this day. Very shameful way to honer one that devoted his life to Jesus.

and after this council anyone caught believing or teaching pre existence, or soul migration was persecuted by the church.

[davetaff]

lets start with this one as i think i see the problem:

1As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2And his disciples asked him, ?Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?? 3Jesus answered, ?It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

first of all when you replied you clipped the part about reincarnation out. i think this is why you dont see, you look at the passages but in your mind your telling yourself "their is no reincarnation" and its ok to think this as most churches say this, but what men "say" is not the bible.

you cant sin before you are born, only in another life, the 12 knew this, they were taught by Jesus.

Hi Jaybird
Thanks for your reply but I can not see anything in the scripture you have quoted which  would make me think of reincarnation and our Lord answered the decipels question it needs no other explanation.
If reincarnation was a fact scripture  would make it plain.

Love and Peace
Dave

[davetaff]

The Second Council of Constantinople was held in the 550s. This is an important event on the subject at hand. At the time there were many bishops teaching pre existence and soul migration some say close to half, emperor Justinian hand picked about 150 bishops that was against and only allowed 6 that were for. There is speculation that Justinian and his wife believed in the idea and wanted to hide it from the masses, Justinian belief is unclear but his wife Theodora more than likely did believe and it is well known she got what she wanted.  The personal beliefs of the emperor may be unclear but its very clear the council was bias and did not represent the majority of believers.
The reason we focus on the emperor and not the pope or bishops is because Justinian was notoriously known for micro managing and meddling in religious affairs.
Its also important to note Justinian was known for cruelty, corruption, corrupting the priesthood and was not well liked by the people.
Up to this council the teachings of Origen were loved by the people, he was considered the greatest theologian of his day, a devoted believer. After this council his memory becomes that of a heretic to this day. Very shameful way to honer one that devoted his life to Jesus.

and after this council anyone caught believing or teaching pre existence, or soul migration was persecuted by the church.
[/quote

    Hi Jaybird
Thanks for your reply but unfortunately I take anything that comes after the amen in revelation with a pinch of salt as the teachings of men not God if God wants us to know something he will make it plain so that the ordenary man in the street can understand it.
God wants  us to know who he is what he has done what he is doing and what he will do in the future not everything has to be a mystery.
The church can have all the councils  it likes but they cannot add or take away from Gods word.

Love and Peace
Dave