Author Topic: Strange christianity  (Read 979 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline jaybird

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Strange christianity
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2020, 07:28:44 PM »


Quote
You need to learn about how the bible was formed.

It was not made by the RCC, but by the collective knowledge of early church leaders.

They had the ability to recognise the good letters etc which were written by apostles or by there companions.
Those books you mentioned while seen as helpful were never viewed as being scripture by the early church.

It is only those today with a particular axe to grind that want to use these books.

Coldcasechristianity is a good starting point?

i have learned quite a bit on how the bible was formed, i learned how communities had to hide all their scriptures or rome would burn them. like i pointed out before.

i have never believed the RCC made the bible. i said Imperial Rome. rome was around long before RCC. after rome became Christian they were no different than they were before, they still conquered other nations, they (emperors) still murdered their way to power,they continued to have mass savory, power was held by the few and those few abused it. i get they called themselves Christian but i dont see the Christians.  these guys killed Jesus, killed the 12 (John P was given life) killed John the Baptist, and killed St Paul. after all that i would not trust them to walk my mom across the street much less tell me what scripture i can read.

it was the early church that was upset when those books i mentioned got thrown out by rome.

i do have an ax to grind as i believe the spirit should lead one on what book is real, not a roman council of men, those councils also gave us crusades, burning people alive and inquisitions.

Offline jaybird

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Strange christianity
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2020, 07:33:11 PM »
Hi
There is nothing in scripture that would support reincarnation it dose not happen when we die we sleep awaiting the resurrection let us pray we are in the first one.

As for the bible being interfered with by men I don't think its possible we are talking here of the God who created the heaven and the earth and everything in them I believe he would easily produce a book as he wishes it to be  the bible was essential for the spreading of Gods word and still is today.
I tend to favour the KJV version because it was the first full translation into English and as such I believe it would have been under the watchful eye of the holy spirit.
If Man was able to interfere with Gods word we would not be able to trust any of it but we can trust it 100% it is Gods word not Mans

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.       

Love and Peace
Dave


if there is nothing in scripture to support it then why did so many believe it up until the 500s?

if it were not possible to interfere with the bible there would be no point in the Father warning not to interfere with it.

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3022
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Strange christianity
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2020, 12:56:32 PM »

if there is nothing in scripture to support it then why did so many believe it up until the 500s?

if it were not possible to interfere with the bible there would be no point in the Father warning not to interfere with it.

Hi Jaybird
Thank you for your reply just because someone believes  in something  dose not make it true the ancient  world believed  in many different  Gods but none have been proved to be true.
On the other hand we have eyewitness  accounts of Christ rising  from the dead so we can have great confidence that when our Lord returns the dead will be raised up.

Then we have.

      For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-‬19 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.22.18-19.KJV       


Its not just a question of changing the printed word not many do this but what some do is take a verse  or a section or scripture and give it a meaning that God never intended this is man made theology  and doctoring when they put meanings on the scripture the are not found in the scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave



https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.22.18-19.KJV

Offline jaybird

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Strange christianity
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2020, 01:04:13 AM »
Hi Jaybird
Thank you for your reply just because someone believes  in something  dose not make it true the ancient  world believed  in many different  Gods but none have been proved to be true.
On the other hand we have eyewitness  accounts of Christ rising  from the dead so we can have great confidence that when our Lord returns the dead will be raised up.

Then we have.

      For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-‬19 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.22.18-19.KJV       


Its not just a question of changing the printed word not many do this but what some do is take a verse  or a section or scripture and give it a meaning that God never intended this is man made theology  and doctoring when they put meanings on the scripture the are not found in the scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave

i agree with you, just becasue someone believes it definitely does not make it true. that argument works the other way as well, just because people say its false soes not make it false.
the point i was making was why, why did so many believe this idea? and this was an accpeted belief for at least 500 years and maybe longer than that. in the days of Jesus the majority believed it, in the 500s when rome called a council to make it heresy we have no idea how many believed it.

here is an interesting passage from James:

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.

whats interesting is the bolded part. if you cross ref this phrase through all the parallell translations you get many alternate words:
course - successions - wheel - whole round
life - nature - existence - generations - nativity

strongs -

course
τροχὸν (trochon)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 5164: A wheel, course. From trecho; a wheel, i.e. a circuit of physical effects.

of his life {on fire},
γενέσεως (geneseōs)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 1078: Birth, lineage, descent. From the same as genea; nativity; figuratively, nature.

so technically you can take any of the words and interchange them and they would be correct, however if you take the Greek words "trochos tes geneseos" and go back to ancient Greece, these words composed a unique phrase "wheel of birth", in the Greek mystery schools this phrase was used to define rebirth / soul migration. i cant speak for James, but IMO its highly unlikely he would have been ignorant of Greek thought and used a phrase unique to Greek thought when he was talking about something else.



https://bible.com/bible/1/rev.22.18-19.KJV

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3022
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Strange christianity
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2020, 11:41:20 AM »
Hi Jaybird
Thank you for your reply I'm  afraid I have no knowledge of ancient  languages  I will stick to my KJV.
As for reincarnation  if I understand it correctly  means being reborn then this is correct we are reborn through baptism we die to self and are reborn into the body of Christ we become a new man.

    Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:3-‬4 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.6.3-4.ESV     


So early Christians may have been referring  to baptism when they spoke of reincarnation.
When I speak  of baptism I am not talking of a priest splashing water on a babies head I am speaking of being submerged  and washed in the word of God and having the heart pierced  by the sword of truth and dying  to the old self to be reborn ( reincarnated ) into the body of Christ Jesus our Lord.

Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.6.3-4.ESV

Offline jaybird

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Strange christianity
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2020, 01:35:33 AM »
Hi Jaybird
Thank you for your reply I'm  afraid I have no knowledge of ancient  languages  I will stick to my KJV.
As for reincarnation  if I understand it correctly  means being reborn then this is correct we are reborn through baptism we die to self and are reborn into the body of Christ we become a new man.

    Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:3-‬4 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.6.3-4.ESV     


So early Christians may have been referring  to baptism when they spoke of reincarnation.
When I speak  of baptism I am not talking of a priest splashing water on a babies head I am speaking of being submerged  and washed in the word of God and having the heart pierced  by the sword of truth and dying  to the old self to be reborn ( reincarnated ) into the body of Christ Jesus our Lord.

Love and Peace
Dave

IMO baptism was a much bigger part of Judaism than many modern Christians realize. i have spent a few years researching early Christianity, the time between the ascension and the roman takeover. i have read a lot on the dead sea scrolls, i think this is the best window to look into those days. the DSS scrolls were held in the community of Qumran, the Jewish sect that lived there were Essene Jews, John the baptist was more than likely one of their community leaders. concerning baptism, these guys went through baptisms on a daily/weekly routine. it was part of a cleansing ritual and of the utmost importance.
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.6.3-4.ESV

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3022
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Strange christianity
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2020, 12:53:15 PM »
Hy jaybird
Thanks for your reply like I have said there is no such a thing as reincarnation only the resurrection  of the dead I did find this which may be of interest.

     For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.  Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:24-‬26 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/ezk.36.24-26.KJV       


This is speaking of our time Israel back in their own land the clean water of course is the water of the word of God this will be the baptism of Israel their rebirth so when we see Israel accepting Jesus as their Saviour  we will know his return is at the door.
You may well be right and there was Jews and Christians  who believed in reincarnation  but they had definitely got it wrong.

     And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hebrews 9:27 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.9.27.KJV       


Love and Peace
Dave
https://bible.com/bible/1/ezk.36.24-26.KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.9.27.KJV

Offline jaybird

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Strange christianity
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2020, 09:06:12 PM »
Hy jaybird
Thanks for your reply like I have said there is no such a thing as reincarnation only the resurrection  of the dead I did find this which may be of interest.

     For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.  Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:24-‬26 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/ezk.36.24-26.KJV       


This is speaking of our time Israel back in their own land the clean water of course is the water of the word of God this will be the baptism of Israel their rebirth so when we see Israel accepting Jesus as their Saviour  we will know his return is at the door.
You may well be right and there was Jews and Christians  who believed in reincarnation  but they had definitely got it wrong.

     And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hebrews 9:27 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.9.27.KJV       


Love and Peace
Dave

they was a such thing as reincarnation in the early days, the church had to call a council in the 500s to deal with it. and before that in the days of Jesus and the 12 almost all the Jewish sects believed in it.
https://bible.com/bible/1/ezk.36.24-26.KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.9.27.KJV

 

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal