Author Topic: Predesdination  (Read 701 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline francis drake

Re: Predesdination
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2019, 05:25:30 PM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

That's what I've been saying  along the saints apostles have been chosen by God they are Gods elect
No, that's not what you said, you claimed that the "faithful" and the "saints" were two different people. Here's your post again.-
What is a saint as I understand it they are holy and those who have been chosen to be the body of Christ.
Now let's look at what the wording says about the faithful it says
 " and to the faithful " if it was meant to include the Saints surely it would say " who are faithful "


Quote
note the last line set apart by God or if you like Chosen by God.
Of course we are "set apart" by God. But that's totally on the basis of our obedient and faithful response to the Holy Spirit.
Quote
I don't see where you get the word different I can't see it anywhere in the above who's wm Barkly why should I believe him.
I'm surprised you can't join the dots Dave.
If someone is referred to as "Holy", or "sanctified", or a "saint", it simply means he is "set apart" from ordinary men. In other words, he is different to the rest!
No idea who Wm Barclay is............maybe he started the bank!
Quote
Are you saying everyone who believes is a saint in that case everyone is chosen by God and there is no freewill,
But why on earth do you imagine they have no freewill?
Everyone who believes is a saint, or "set apart". He is set apart by God from those who refuse to believe. ie. when convicted by the Holy Spirit, they surrender to him by freewill choice.
Quote
there is an elect chosen by God Christs helper his Eve who is a creation Of God nothing to do with the will of man.
You keep going on about this, but its completely unbiblical nonsense.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Offline davetaff

Re: Predesdination
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2019, 01:05:50 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your post you said.
Quote
.
That's what I've been saying  along the saints apostles have been chosen by God they are Gods elect
No, that's not what you said, you claimed that the "faithful" and the "saints" were two different people. Here's your post again.-
What is a saint as I understand it they are holy and those who have been chosen to be the body of Christ.
Now let's look at what the wording says about the faithful it says
 " and to the faithful " if it was meant to include the Saints surely it would say " who are faithful       

I was speaking here only of the one group the saints those chosen by God.
Quote
. note the last line set apart by God or if you like Chosen by God.
Of course we are "set apart" by God. But that's totally on the basis of our obedient and faithful response to the Holy Spirit     
Now you are speaking about the second group those who have heard the gospel preached by the Apostles the chosen and have been born again through baptism of there own freewill.
Quote
. Quote
I don't see where you get the word different I can't see it anywhere in the above who's wm Barkly why should I believe him.
I'm surprised you can't join the dots Dave.
If someone is referred to as "Holy", or "sanctified", or a "saint", it simply means he is "set apart" from ordinary men. In other words, he is different to the rest       

Well that's what I've been saying the saints are different set apart by God.
On the other hand there there are those who choose God of which I am one how about you or do you think we are all on a par with St Peter or Paul.

Quote
. Are you saying everyone who believes is a saint in that case everyone is chosen by God and there is no freewill,

But why on earth do you imagine they have no freewill?
Everyone who believes is a saint, or "set apart". He is set apart by God from those who refuse to believe. ie. when convicted by the Holy Spirit, they surrender to him by freewill choice     

If everyone is a saint then everyone who believes is a saint they have been chosen by God and if chosen by God then  it was not a freewill choice and as you rightly point out freewill is essential.

Quote
. there is an elect chosen by God Christs helper his Eve who is a creation Of God nothing to do with the will of man.

You keep going on about this, but its completely unbiblical nonsense     

Are you saying that God did not create a woman from Adams rib that it's unbiblical nonsense of course not I know you believe this.
And as you know from scripture Christ is the last Adam and it stands to reason he also would have a female helper his Eve who like the first Eve was created by God.
As Christ is a new Adam then it stands to reason he was the beginning of a new creation which would follow the pattern of the first.
Is not our God wonderful he tells us the end from the beginning he tells us all we need to know up to the present and beyond.


Love and Peace
Dave






Offline francis drake

Re: Predesdination
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2019, 10:40:41 PM »

On the other hand there there are those who choose God of which I am one how about you or do you think we are all on a par with St Peter or Paul.
Every believer is on a par with Paul or Peter. Their status was and is no different to yours or mine. They and we are "set apart" unto God because they believed just as we believed.

What people do with their salvation is of course down to them. That's what the parable of the sower reveals.

All people have a seed sown by God. If their hearts are hard, then the birds of the air snatch that seed away.
Otherwise the seed will produce varying fruit just as Jesus explained. It all depends how much weeds or stones are in your heart, Some hearts are good soil and produce the most fruit.
But all hearts have the same seed, whether Paul, Peter, Francis Drake, Dave, or Billy Graham.
Quote
If everyone is a saint then everyone who believes is a saint they have been chosen by God and if chosen by God then  it was not a freewill choice and as you rightly point out freewill is essential.
I don't think I have ever met anyone so illogical as you dave!
All who receive him become saints, because they said yes to the word of the Lord to them. That is their freewill decision.
What's so difficult about that Dave? They made a freewill choice to accept God. On account of that freewill choice, they were set apart. They became sanctified or saints.
Simple surely.
Quote
Are you saying that God did not create a woman from Adams rib that it's unbiblical nonsense of course not I know you believe this.
Like Adam and Eve, neither you nor I had any choice about being first conceived and born. But being born of the flesh is not the issue in the slightest.
In John3 Jesus discounted our first fleshly birth as of no relevance to being acceptable to God.

The only issue is the second birth, the spiritual birth from above and that is every man's freewill choice whether they respond to the Holy Spirit or turn their backs on God.

So stop harping on about Eve. She has no relevance to our freewill choice of life or death.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

Re: Predesdination
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2019, 01:35:07 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply you said.
Quote
.Every believer is on a par with Paul or Peter. Their status was and is no different to yours or mine. They and we are "set apart" unto God because they believed just as we believed     

I believe there is a difference the saints were chosen by God take another look at the conversion of St Paul is there anything that says he has a choice Jesus just said I want you.
So Jesus chose Paul and the rest of the Apostles to spread the good news the seed of the parable which is strewn through the world of which some take root in the heart and brings forth fruit.

Quote
.   I don't think I have ever met anyone so illogical as you dave!
All who receive him become saints, because they said yes to the word of the Lord to them. That is their freewill decision.
What's so difficult about that Dave? They made a freewill choice to accept God. On account of that freewill choice, they were set apart. They became sanctified or saints.
Simple surely       

Yes all that receive him will become saints at the resurrection but the Apostles became saints when Christ chose them.

. 13  And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles       

So we see here there was more than 12disciples out of which he chose 12 to be apostles so there is a difference between a disciple and  an Apostle an Apostle is chosen by Christ a disciple chooses Christ of his own freewill.

Quote
. The only issue is the second birth, the spiritual birth from above and that is every man's freewill choice whether they respond to the Holy Spirit or turn their backs on God       

I agree and we are reborn at baptism we die with Christ to be reborn, strange that there is no record of the Apostles being baptized.

Quote
. So stop harping on about Eve. She has no relevance to our freewill choice of life or death       

On the contrary I think she's very relevant if the First Adam had a Eve so it stands to reason that the last Adam would have his Eve both Eve's are a creation of God not of the will of man.
As I have said before there is more to the creation account than meats the eye.

Love and Peace
Dave




Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !