Author Topic: Has God changed?  (Read 232 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Maggy

Has God changed?
« on: November 29, 2018, 03:43:35 PM »
Hi folks,
I have been reading the old testament a lot more recently.

It has raised the question in my mind as to whether God changed between OT and NT times, or was He totally misunderstood by the people of the OT era.
David for example, thinks God is all powerful and on his side in his wars with his neighbours.

I was always taught that God was unchanging and loving.
Jesus teaches that we should love our neighbour and pray for our enemies, not wipe them off the face of the earth, including the women and children.

I am confused. What do you think?


Maggy

Offline Deborah

Re: Has God changed?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2018, 04:35:44 PM »
It isn't God who has changed, but circumstances.

David was king over God's people at a time when they were a distinct nation occupying a defined geographical territory. They would not have survived long if God hadn't been "on their side". And they had to fight physical wars with material weapons, just like any other nation, in order not to be conquered and swamped by pagan nations.

But with the coming of Jesus, virtually everything has changed. God is still "on our side" (see Romans 8:31-39), but His people are now from all nations so we don't fight 'nation-against-nation' any more. Our battles are spiritual, and we fight with spiritual weapons (II Corinthians 10:3,4)- but in other respects we are just like David, relying on our all-powerful God.
"His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life." (II Peter 1:3a)

Offline davetaff

Re: Has God changed?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2018, 05:46:30 PM »
Hi folks,
I have been reading the old testament a lot more recently.

It has raised the question in my mind as to whether God changed between OT and NT times, or was He totally misunderstood by the people of the OT era.
David for example, thinks God is all powerful and on his side in his wars with his neighbours.

I was always taught that God was unchanging and loving.
Jesus teaches that we should love our neighbour and pray for our enemies, not wipe them off the face of the earth, including the women and children.

I am confused. What do you think?

Hi Maggy
yes your right the OT is a very scary read and how could the God of love do these terrible things and what dose it all mean if Man did all these things they would be charged with genocide so is God above his own law you shall not kill so are we looking at these things in the wrong way is there another perspective we are not seeing dose God change you ask.

Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
   


so God is the same today as he has always bean he is the God of Love is the meaning of the history of Israel to for us to find the good in it not the evil dose God cause evil or dose satan cause evil dose God only tell us of the evil that is going to take place that satan causes God says he is responsible because he can prevent it but there is a condition we and Israel must turn to him and trust him to have faith in his promises.
Deborah mentioned David and his army and the wars he fought the question is if he and Israel had 100% faith in Gods promises would they have needed an army if they were obedient to Gods laws God would have protected them.

Very interesting question hope we can expand on it.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Offline Deborah

Re: Has God changed?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2018, 08:23:34 PM »

Deborah mentioned David and his army and the wars he fought the question is if he and Israel had 100% faith in Gods promises would they have needed an army if they were obedient to Gods laws God would have protected them.

Very interesting question hope we can expand on it.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Would they have needed  an army if they were obedient? Oh yes!
God promised them various rewards for obedience, but not needing an army wasn't included! On the contrary, the difference that obedience would make was that their armies would gain easy victories! (see Leviticus 26:7,8; Deuteronomy 20:1-4)
"His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life." (II Peter 1:3a)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Has God changed?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2018, 01:17:08 AM »
I think of Gideon now.. and Judges 7:5-6  .

So you can defeat an army now [the enemy] - the meaning of this scripture is not about numbers / but - but about a few defeating many.

..


Offline davetaff

Re: Has God changed?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2018, 11:43:17 AM »
Would they have needed  an army if they were obedient? Oh yes!
God promised them various rewards for obedience, but not needing an army wasn't included! On the contrary, the difference that obedience would make was that their armies would gain easy victories! (see Leviticus 26:7,8; Deuteronomy 20:1-4)

Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply I have read through the passages you quoted and it tells the Israelites what will happen if they are obedient they will prosper everything will go well for them they will want for nothing.
If the are disobedient then it will cause complete disaster which is what did happen God had warned them what would happen and they ignored the warning they broke the covenant but God will keep his side of the covenant all Israel will be saved.

When God gave the law to Israel it epitomized what loving your neighbour was all about so who was Israel's neighbours but all the nation's Joshua was to lead them into.
The law says you shall not kill was killing in God's name ok I have not seen any get out clauses in the law.
So how was Israel to destroy all the nation's before them well first God when't before them to do what?
What was the weapon the Israelites were to use was it the word of God the sword of truth the same weapon we are to wield was the law their gospel message.

Hi TJ
I found your ref to Judges interesting God gave Gideon only 300 men to go against the Midianites and it seams all they had were trumpets and torches with which to put there enemies to flight was the trumpets a wake up call from God when they broke the pots which covered the torches represent showing the Midianites the light of God.

Mat 26:51  And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
Mat 26:52  Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
     
 

So as we see from the above its not with weapons of war that we will fulfil Gods will here on earth but with

Eph 6:17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
   


so did the same apply to Israel was it there jod to evangelise the nations around them to completely destroy them as sinners and bring them new born to God as we are destroyed in baptism to be reborn into Christ.
Dose God approve of war of physically killing in his name do you think he approved of the crusades.   

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Has God changed?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2018, 06:38:48 PM »
The short answer is No God has not changed.
TheGod of Love we see in the OT is the same God in the NT.

What many people are confused about is just what love means.

Read through the OT from God speaking to Cain all the way through to the end of revelation.
Every time you read of God speaking or interviening in some way you are seeing God's love in action.

Everyone forgets that God is not just 'luv'.
He is above all else he is HOLY and he is Rightous, Just and Merciful.

Adam in rebelling made us all enemies of God who deserve NOTHING except judgement and condemnation.
So God in making his law known to us, in sending prophets etc was acting out of love for man.
Isreal was to be a Holy nation, living example of how God blesses obedience, bringing the nations into enquire about God etc.

Deborah is right about the benefits of obedience etc.

As for all the wars of Israel. God gave the orders to go and kill them, he also explained that those nations hads been warned but had not changed there ways. Read about the spies in Jerchio, as the prositute said they had heard that God had given the land to the israelites, yet had done nothing about moving out or making peace with the israelites.
So it is harsh to accuse the israelite of murder when they were obeying God.
The following users thanked this post: Tes Johnson

Offline davetaff

Re: Has God changed?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2018, 02:51:01 PM »
Hi John
Thanks for your reply you said
Quote
The short answer is No God has not changed.
TheGod of Love we see in the OT is the same God in the NT.       
So we can agree on this nice change so its the same God in the OT as in the NT God is Love.

Quote
What many people are confused about is just what love means.     
what do you mean by this for me it means if you love someone you will not cause them any harm but a parent may chastise his children for their good as God the father may chastise his children for their good up to a point.

Quote
Read through the OT from God speaking to Cain all the way through to the end of revelation.
Every time you read of God speaking or interviening in some way you are seeing God's love in action.     
Agreed

Quote
Everyone forgets that God is not just 'luv'.
He is above all else he is HOLY and he is Rightous, Just and Merciful.     
Yes he is all these things but the best of all is Love its his great love that makes all his other atributes possible.

Quote
Adam in rebelling made us all enemies of God who deserve NOTHING except judgement and condemnation.
So God in making his law known to us, in sending prophets etc was acting out of love for man.
Isreal was to be a Holy nation, living example of how God blesses obedience, bringing the nations into enquire about God etc.     

Seam a resonable statement not to sure about the Adam bit have not made up my mind on that.

Quote
As for all the wars of Israel. God gave the orders to go and kill them, he also explained that those nations hads been warned but had not changed there ways. Read about the spies in Jerchio, as the prositute said they had heard that God had given the land to the israelites, yet had done nothing about moving out or making peace with the israelites.
So it is harsh to accuse the israelite of murder when they were obeying God.     

Here we come to the original question from Maggy and the one that nags at the back of my mind dose God condone killing and geecide can God bypass all his own laws of love this can be a stumbling block for many new seekers is there a reasonable explination for it.
We know God cannot commit evil but we know someone who can satan and we know God permits him to exist in the world so satan is the cause of evil is the evil in the world Gods way of chastising the human race?

and so we come back to love love is a freewill gift from the heart nobody can make us love somebody else not even God or it would not be love so it is up to us to reject evil and satan and the only way to do this is by everyone loveing God and his fellow man.

Love and Peace
Dave