Author Topic: The prophecies of Amos  (Read 931 times)

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Offline Deborah

Re: The prophecies of Amos
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2018, 12:24:16 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your post but the quotes you have given say God will bring fire on these places not man my question is what is this fire and when will it take place.
Does God's fire have a good purpose it says GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE what does that mean to consume means to take into will God take into himself all these nations and many more when will this be possible only during  the millennium this is when God's fire will consume them.

All the quotes from Amos so far are pretty horrendous do you think God takes responsibility for these things because he could prevent them but does not because he wants us to do whats right in love.
Love the neighbour.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi Dave

When God acts in this world it's usually through human agency. (Even with the Exodus, He carried it out through Moses). So the 'fires' that Amos is talking about are lit by human beings, and they are perfectly ordinary fires. When a fire 'consumes' something, it destroys it.
All these nations have committed horrendous crimes (crimes against humanity, as we would call them). And those crimes cry out for justice. God takes responsibility for seeing that justice is (eventually) done.

I agree - this is an alarming chapter. But it's setting up for what follows. We'll end up seeing that Amos' message isn't really about other nations, but about God's own people - i.e. us...
"My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness." (II Corinthians 12:9)

Offline Deborah

Re: The prophecies of Amos
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 09:58:22 PM »
Imagine that Amos has been preaching this sermon (chapter 1) in some town in Israel. His audience like hearing about the terrible judgements that ware going to fall on all their enemies! But now he suddenly comes uncomfortably close to home...

Amos 2:4,5
(4) This is what the LORD says:
"For three sins of Judah,
even for four, I will not relent.
Because they have rejected the law of the LORD
and have not kept his decrees,
because they have been led astray by false gods,
the gods their ancestors followed,

(5) I will send fire on Judah
that will consume the fortresses of Jerusalem."


Judah had done nothing so bad as any of the surrounding nations. But that did not make them safe from God's judgement. God's own people will be judged more severely, because they have sinned not only against conscience but also against revelation.
Judah had been given God's Law - but had deliberately chosen first to despise it and then to disobey it. They were breaking the very first commandment, by worshipping all kinds of idols! And as each generation copied the errors of the previous one, they gradually drifted further and further away from the truth of God's Word. This is because idolatry is the root of all other sins. Those who worship pagan gods will end up behaving like pagans - and God will then judge them in the same way as He judges pagans.
"My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness." (II Corinthians 12:9)

Offline davetaff

Re: The prophecies of Amos
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2018, 06:57:09 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your post seams much the same as the others God is going to deal with all these lands and Judah in the same way but what form will this chastising take maybe Paul can help us.

.

Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head         


The greatest gift God has given to humanity was his beloved son for the sins of the whole world is this the fire of God that Paul is talking about.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Deborah

Re: The prophecies of Amos
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2018, 07:41:55 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your post seams much the same as the others God is going to deal with all these lands and Judah in the same way but what form will this chastising take maybe Paul can help us.

.

Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head         


The greatest gift God has given to humanity was his beloved son for the sins of the whole world is this the fire of God that Paul is talking about.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi Dave

We know what form the chastising of Judah took (in 586 BC):
"Nebuzaradan commander of the imperial guard, an official of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. He set fire to the temple of the LORD, the royal palace and all the houses of Jerusalem. Every important building he burned down."  (II Kings 25:8,9)
It's all very well to spiritualise the Old Testament, but surely you must recognise that these were real events first and foremost?
"My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness." (II Corinthians 12:9)

Offline davetaff

Re: The prophecies of Amos
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2018, 11:46:03 AM »
Hi Dave

We know what form the chastising of Judah took (in 586 BC):
"Nebuzaradan commander of the imperial guard, an official of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. He set fire to the temple of the LORD, the royal palace and all the houses of Jerusalem. Every important building he burned down."  (II Kings 25:8,9)
It's all very well to spiritualise the Old Testament, but surely you must recognise that these were real events first and foremost?

Hi Deborah
Thank you for your post yes of course all the things Amos prophesied came true but who was responsible was it God or did God just warn all these countries what was going to happen in advance and gave them opportunity to change there ways.

The question remain could the God of love commit all this genocide I don't believe  so that he allows them to happen yes it's the same today the world is in a horrible state everywhere you look it's easy to put right Love God and love your neighbour and the world would change over night.
Roll on the millennium.
Love and Peace
Dave


Offline Deborah

Re: The prophecies of Amos
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2018, 04:43:05 PM »
Now we get down to the main target of Amos' message: the kingdom of Israel.

Amos 2:6-8
(6) This is what the LORD says:
"For three sins of Israel,
even for four, I will not relent.
They sell the innocent for silver,
and the needy for a pair of sandals.

(7)
They trample on the heads of the poor
as on the dust of the ground
and deny justice to the oppressed.
Father and son use the same girl
and so profane my holy name.

(8 ) They lie down beside every altar
on garments taken in pledge.
In the house of their god
they drink wine taken as fines."


Note that the sins God condemns in His own people are different from the sins He condemns in unbelievers. The spotlight falls not so much onto Israel's idolatry as onto her mistreatment of the poor. The judges were hopelessly corrupt: the rich could buy the verdicts they wanted, and a poor man could be enslaved for the most trifling of debts ("a pair of sandals").
The rich regarded the poor with utter contempt - not as brothers to be pitied and helped, but as objects to be abused and exploited. Such was their distorted sense of priorities that they saw nothing wrong in using what they had plundered from their victims (such as the pledged cloak that should have been returned to its owner every night) as resources for their worship - 'worship' that was actually cult prostitution, and not the worship of Yahweh at all but of Baal!

Quote
did God just warn all these countries what was going to happen in advance and gave them opportunity to change there ways.
Yes, the whole point of sending prophets like Amos was to persuade the people to repent. Then the disasters that were prophesied would not happen (as when Jonah went to Nineveh - and the Ninevites repented). But sadly, Israel did not change their ways - and God doesn't make idle threats.

So this is a warning for us too. It's not enough to 'believe' the right things - we must put our faith into practice and love our neighbours. God expects no less of us.
"My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness." (II Corinthians 12:9)

Offline davetaff

Re: The prophecies of Amos
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2018, 10:55:57 AM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your post I was wondering about the countries around Israel do you think they had knowledge of the law as given to Moses.
The reason I ask is Paul tells us where there is no law there is no transgression obviously Israel broke the law in many ways and paid the price is there anything in scripture to indicate that Israel had passed on the law to the countries around them who were related to then.

As for the text you have quoted it looks like Israel was in a terrible state not any different to the world we live in today but on a smaller scale.
God's answer then was to remove them from the land flowing with milk and honey and relocate  them in Babylon but being a loving God he sent Amos to warn them and give them opportunity to repent which they did not do.

Of course now God has not sent another Amos but his beloved Son and the world really needs to listen to him because it's in a terrible state.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Deborah

Re: The prophecies of Amos
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2018, 11:59:25 AM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your post I was wondering about the countries around Israel do you think they had knowledge of the law as given to Moses.
The reason I ask is Paul tells us where there is no law there is no transgression obviously Israel broke the law in many ways and paid the price is there anything in scripture to indicate that Israel had passed on the law to the countries around them who were related to then.

No, they didn't know the Law - it was given just to Israel. Remember the first commandment? "You shall have no other gods but me." The Law begins with allegiance to Yahweh, and the reason Israel were given it was because He had rescued them from Egypt. So for other nations this was a non-starter!

This is why the sins other nations are judged for are different from the sins Judah and Israel were judged for. But we are all sinners. As Paul also says, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."  (Romans 2:12)

Quote
As for the text you have quoted it looks like Israel was in a terrible state not any different to the world we live in today but on a smaller scale.
Exactly. They were no different from unbelievers.
"My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness." (II Corinthians 12:9)