Author Topic: Abortion ?  (Read 487 times)

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Offline wincam

Re: Abortion ?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 12:31:30 AM »

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Haha. You have just reversed the words of Jesus.

This is what Jesus says.-
Matt16v3?Truly I tell you,? He said, ?unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

This is what wincam says.-
Unless a child changes and becomes like an adult (ie. gets baptised, with all attendant theology), he will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


wrong - wincam believes in infant and child baptism - wincam
carpe diem/semper fidelis

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Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Abortion ?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 12:51:14 AM »
In the end it is about what God see's and knows..forgetting about baptism [ as we are all born of water anyway]

Whether we are used by God or whether we never have the chance to be used by God..

God will know the hearts of those "unborn"...

He will also know what they would have done or would'nt and will see "how they would have been"


Therefore I cannot see how being unborn is any different from being born from above....

Water or Spiirt really has no significance  and I will not enter an argument about [baptism the only way of salvation]

or [Spirit the only way] as I think both are a silly argument...

Yes some infants will enter and some will not - the same as with all of us...


Yiou cannot fool God - alive or having never lived...


Neither can you argue scripture with God..

So no - I cannot see an argument here - as God will know how people unborn would have  been ...

Am I saved by my actions ?  well King David committed adultery being already chosen by God and God knowing what he would do - so I suppose God must chose sinners and uses them..

What God see's within a heart is another question - only He will see the inner workings...


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Abortion ?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 01:18:13 AM »
Which is why I feel Psalm 139 has such a big place in this topic...

You might say "well God knitted the person together so now it is God's fault...

Well no -because people now have a choice and their hearts can be chnaged by the very people who own them.

Look at God's descicion [in life] when He chose David to be King ...

God passed all brothers until He came to David....

Therefore David was vchosen and anointed by Samuel [appointed by God]  in 1 Samuel 16:10

re: 0 Jesse had seven of his sons pass before Samuel, but Samuel said to him, ?The Lord has not chosen these.? 11 So he asked Jesse, ?Are these all the sons you have??

?There is still the youngest,? Jesse answered. ?He is tending the sheep.?

Samuel said, ?Send for him; we will not sit down until he arrives.?

12 So he sent for him and had him brought in. He was glowing with health and had a fine appearance and handsome features.

Then the Lord said, ?Rise and anoint him; this is the one.?


Having said that look at  1 Samuel 15:11  "I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions." Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

It would seem that God made a mistake here... but God chose the heart at that time - but Saul's heart changed..

If God could  make mistakes - He would not be God...






Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Abortion ?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 01:33:58 AM »



In 1 Samuel 19:9 the Lord sent an evil spirit on Saul....

Would this happen to those unborn [born of the Spirit or born of water"]

Yes...


figure that one out...

Offline francis drake

Re: Abortion ?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 05:35:55 PM »

wrong - wincam believes in infant and child baptism - wincam

So when do aborted babies get baptised?
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Abortion ?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 05:46:57 PM »
Which is why I feel Psalm 139 has such a big place in this topic...

You might say "well God knitted the person together so now it is God's fault...

Well no -because people now have a choice and their hearts can be chnaged by the very people who own them.

Look at God's descicion [in life] when He chose David to be King ...

God passed all brothers until He came to David....

Therefore David was vchosen and anointed by Samuel [appointed by God]  in 1 Samuel 16:10

re: 0 Jesse had seven of his sons pass before Samuel, but Samuel said to him, ?The Lord has not chosen these.? 11 So he asked Jesse, ?Are these all the sons you have??

?There is still the youngest,? Jesse answered. ?He is tending the sheep.?

Samuel said, ?Send for him; we will not sit down until he arrives.?

12 So he sent for him and had him brought in. He was glowing with health and had a fine appearance and handsome features.

Then the Lord said, ?Rise and anoint him; this is the one.?


Having said that look at  1 Samuel 15:11  "I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions." Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

It would seem that God made a mistake here... but God chose the heart at that time - but Saul's heart changed..

If God could  make mistakes - He would not be God...
I agree Psalm139 speaks volumes here.
But I cannot see the connection between king Saul and aborted babies.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

Re: Abortion ?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 05:56:27 PM »

wrong - wincam believes in infant and child baptism - wincam

Hi Wincam
what scripture do you have to support this statement I cant find one word baptism dose not appear in the OT it started with John the Baptist but there is no mention of children being baptised.

A prerequisite for Baptism is repentance can a small child repent can a baby repent of what.

of course the whole thread is only speculation we only need to trust in God to do the right thing.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Abortion ?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 12:42:30 AM »
I agree Psalm139 speaks volumes here.
But I cannot see the connection between king Saul and aborted babies.

Being unable to think of scriptural  parallels [apart from Jesus before birth talking to His Father ... in John 17:24  - etc]

God chosing King David and how Saul was chosen - but how Saul changed over time.. [seemed to be the best option - of how God chooses people and how not all unborn may instantly be invited ...



As davetaff said


A prerequisite for Baptism is repentance can a small child repent can a baby repent of what.

of course the whole thread is only speculation we only need to trust in God to do the right thing.

Love and Peace
Dave   


It is an unanswerable question..




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