Author Topic: ADAM and EVE  (Read 272 times)

Description: Born Again ?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: ADAM and EVE
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2018, 12:56:35 AM »

NEWSVIEW PRESENTS

NewsView

Your View - thats NewView


were they born again as Christians ? Wincam

God question or good question

Adam and Eve were born of God, yes

The word Christian was birthed at Antioch..

Of course Paul was a killer /converted / from pharisaical teaching becominga follower of  Christ..

I suppose you could ask the same question of Adam and Eve [although they were in relationship with the Father - the relationship was broken - but blood was shed '[although being cast out of God's prescence  - I am not sure we can parallel  Adam and Eve with ourselves [ as they were unique in quite a few ways...

They did'nt have belly buttons for one..  :o






NEWSVIEW PRESENTS

NewsView

Your View - thats NewView


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: ADAM and EVE
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2018, 01:04:31 AM »
Hi Wincam
Well we can be absolutely sure the last Adam and Eve were born again they are Christ and his Church as for the first Adam and Eve who were they the scriptures only tell us they died it says nothing about being reborn.
the only way to be reborn is to have faith in Jesus Christ and believe he is the son of God I believe this will happen in the millenium when they are resurrected they will have opportunity to know Christ and what he has done for us and to make a choice.

Love and Peace
Dave


First the natural and then the Spiritual  as in 1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Hard to see Adam and Eve in the natural "when so much of what they were was spiritual"



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: ADAM and EVE
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2018, 01:07:07 AM »


Reminds of that well known good sounding quote "Too spiritual to be any earthly good  :D"

Gets blown away when you consider Adam and Eve.

Anyway keep it up  @wincam - good stuff

Offline wincam

  • Community Hall - fellowship
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
  • Total likes: 26
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: ADAM and EVE
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2018, 01:45:25 PM »

Reminds of that well known good sounding quote "Too spiritual to be any earthly good  :D"

Gets blown away when you consider Adam and Eve.

Anyway keep it up  @wincam - good stuff


THE catholic rule for Scripture interpretation is that the literal and obvious must be accepted first unless reason or necessity dictate otherwise - so Jesus said non Christians must be born again as Cahristians imho - wincam
carpe diem/semper fidelis

Offline davetaff

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 53 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: ADAM and EVE
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2018, 02:27:14 PM »
Hi Wincam
thank you for your reply yes of course there will be plenty of room in Gods new world.

Of course in a way Israel was reborn first when they went through the red sea the nation of Israel was born but all these died in the wilderness the new generation was reborn when they passed through the Jorden river.

This passing through water symbolises baptism.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: ADAM and EVE
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2018, 01:34:54 AM »
Based on the bible says you must be born again

eg : John 3:1-15 - 3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, ?Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.? 3 Jesus answered him, ?Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.? 4 Nicodemus said to him, ?How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?? 5 Jesus answered, ?Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ?You must be born again.? 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.?

9 Nicodemus said to him, ?How can these things be?? 10 Jesus answered him, ?Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.




In the wildeness the people were being bitten by snakes and were instructed to look at the serpent on the pole.. this was remedy for staying alive and a /metaphor / for Jesus taking away the sin that causes death..

Born again in John 3:3 literally means "born from above"  - "you" here is plural"

Nicodemus was a well known teacher of the jews,and a member of the sanhedrin - verse 9 and 10  = with all his great teaching and knowledge Jesus adressed Nicodemus...


9 Nicodemus said to him, ?How can these things be?? 10 Jesus answered him, ?Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?


This whole conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus is about "the meaning of being born again"= born from above..

Incidently this was the message at Chch last week [co - incidence] or incident...

Quote
THE catholic rule for Scripture interpretation is that the literal and obvious must be accepted first unless reason or necessity dictate otherwise


This is exactly what Nicodemus was doing and in all his great learning he could not understand how he could go back into his mothers womb...




Quote
so Jesus said non Christians must be born again as Cahristians

No He never said that - He said ""you" plural - as how can you be a non Christian [this phrase can only be used by someone "who has Christ-In" so how can you be a non Christ ..

Cliche ? well - you said it .... 
Quote
non Christians must be born again as Cahristians

How can you be born again as a Christian - when you were not a Christian at the time of conversion ?

You are missing the point here - as their are plenty of people seen as Christians [as england can be said to be a Christian country]

It was only a term used and a phrase for those seen as "followers of the way"

Nothing to do with being born from above... Nicodemus also missed the point ...

Look at John 3:1-15 and see "Wind and the Spirit" in verse 8 is Spirit - Wind..

The key is  "born from above"

John 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?


The term "Christian" being born in Antioch never meant that people could not be rebirthed - before that time..

In the same way Church existed - before the word Church was used...



By paralleling this with Adam and Eve as the title - you have kind of answered your own question...

Wow they Churched / had natural fellowship - with each other and obvious relationship God [before the word Church was born]





Offline francis drake

Re: ADAM and EVE
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2018, 08:56:17 AM »
Based on the bible says you must be born again

eg : John 3:1-15 - 3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, ?Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.? 3 Jesus answered him, ?Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.? 4 Nicodemus said to him, ?How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?? 5 Jesus answered, ?Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ?You must be born again.? 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.?

9 Nicodemus said to him, ?How can these things be?? 10 Jesus answered him, ?Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.




In the wildeness the people were being bitten by snakes and were instructed to look at the serpent on the pole.. this was remedy for staying alive and a /metaphor / for Jesus taking away the sin that causes death..

Born again in John 3:3 literally means "born from above"  - "you" here is plural"

Nicodemus was a well known teacher of the jews,and a member of the sanhedrin - verse 9 and 10  = with all his great teaching and knowledge Jesus adressed Nicodemus...


9 Nicodemus said to him, ?How can these things be?? 10 Jesus answered him, ?Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?


This whole conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus is about "the meaning of being born again"= born from above..

Incidently this was the message at Chch last week [co - incidence] or incident...


This is exactly what Nicodemus was doing and in all his great learning he could not understand how he could go back into his mothers womb...




No He never said that - He said ""you" plural - as how can you be a non Christian [this phrase can only be used by someone "who has Christ-In" so how can you be a non Christ ..

Cliche ? well - you said it .... 
How can you be born again as a Christian - when you were not a Christian at the time of conversion ?

You are missing the point here - as their are plenty of people seen as Christians [as england can be said to be a Christian country]

It was only a term used and a phrase for those seen as "followers of the way"

Nothing to do with being born from above... Nicodemus also missed the point ...

Look at John 3:1-15 and see "Wind and the Spirit" in verse 8 is Spirit - Wind..

The key is  "born from above"

John 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?


The term "Christian" being born in Antioch never meant that people could not be rebirthed - before that time..

In the same way Church existed - before the word Church was used...



By paralleling this with Adam and Eve as the title - you have kind of answered your own question...

Wow they Churched / had natural fellowship - with each other and obvious relationship God [before the word Church was born]

As illustrated by Rahab's faith.

?Josh2v10For we have heard how the LORD dried up the waters of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites across the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed. 11When we heard this, our hearts melted and everyone?s courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below. 12Now therefore, please swear to me by the LORD that you will indeed show kindness to my family because I showed kindness to you. Give me a sure sign?


Nobody can make a statement like this without being born from above, without having the life of Christ within them.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 53 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: ADAM and EVE
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2018, 05:23:52 PM »
Hi Frances
But the spirit of Christ was not given until Pentecost although it existed it was not given in the same way as it was given to the apostles.
  yes God used the spirit to speak through certain people but I don't think the had it as a permanent indwelling what Rahab faith was in what she had seen and told by the spies she believed in the God of heaven and Earth which is God the father.


Love and Peace

Dave

NEWSVIEW PRESENTS

NewsView

Your View - thats NewView