Author Topic: Flat Earth  (Read 1636 times)

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Offline davetaff

Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2019, 02:29:03 PM »
Hi John
Thank you for your post here are a few verses that may help us understand.

Rom 4:15  Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
 Rom 5:13  (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
   


It seams from these two verses that all those who lived outside of Israel and who did not know Gods law do not come under the law this dose not make them innocent of course so can they be punished according to a law the do not Know.

Rom 2:14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15  Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Rom 2:16  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
     


From this we see that there are those who will comply with the law although they do not know the law will be judged accordingly but will this be enough without faith in Jesus Christ.
But it dose not answer the question what will happen to all those who have lived without the law or knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Concerto

Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2019, 07:26:19 PM »
Those who think the earth is flat have not lived in Wales.

Jonah did. :)

Offline John

Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2019, 06:51:19 AM »
Dave,
           A basic principal of law is, Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

A basic principal of the bible is that ALL have sinned. There are NO good or inocent people.

You need to learn and accept this principal.

No sinner, or to be more acurate no enemey of God deserves anything except Gods judgement and punishment.

Offline davetaff

Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2019, 11:39:44 AM »
Dave,
           A basic principal of law is, Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

A basic principal of the bible is that ALL have sinned. There are NO good or inocent people.

You need to learn and accept this principal.

No sinner, or to be more acurate no enemey of God deserves anything except Gods judgement and punishment.

Hi John
Thanks for your reply tell me how can we be judged by the law if we we don't know what the law says up until the time of Christ only Israel had the written law only Israel could break the law and only Israel could be punished under the law.
Are you saying that all those who are not Israelites will be punished by God seam very unfair to me and why does God's judgement always have to be negative why can't God judge people and give a positive judgement.
I know I have this strange Idea that God loves the human race and sent his son to die for the sins of the world not jest for the privileged few this means everyone must have the chance to take advantage of God's wonderful gift.
I believe that Christ's millennial reign is for this purpose why else would be need to reign for a 1000 years.
Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2019, 01:12:49 PM »
Dave,
           Do we form theology based on the bible or on what we think is right?
"why can't God judge people and give a positive judgement." From the bible Dave, please answer this yourself.


God does love the whole human race, but for anyone to be saved they have to repent, there is No forgiveness without a sinner being sorry for their hatred of God and his laws.

Starlin died still hating God, my neighbour, a lovely man also died rejecting God, on what grounds would you expect to see them in heaven?

Jesus said those who do not believe in him are already condemned.

Offline davetaff

Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2019, 02:42:44 PM »
Hi John
Thank you for your reply you said.


Quote
Dave,
           Do we form theology based on the bible or on what we think is right?
"why can't God judge people and give a positive judgement." From the bible Dave, please answer this yourself.


God does love the whole human race, but for anyone to be saved they have to repent, there is No forgiveness without a sinner being sorry for their hatred of God and his laws.

Starlin died still hating God, my neighbour, a lovely man also died rejecting God, on what grounds would you expect to see them in heaven?

Jesus said those who do not believe in him are already condemned.   

Everything we say most be derived from the bible we may have different interpretations as there seams to be many in the world that's why I say we need to go back to the basics what dose the bible say not what men says it says.

As for judgment St Paul had this to say.

Rom 14:10  But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
     
   

We shall all stand before  the judgment seat of Christ so Christ will judge us all and every tongue shall confess what dose every mean here is in only believers or is it everyone.

Then we have
Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
     


As we see here everyone will be judged according to there works so how do you think your neighbour will be judged if he was a good kind person as you say I'm not saying he will get a free ticket to eternal life but maybe he will begiven an opportunity to come to know Christ  and make a freewill choice to love him.

And I think this will apply to all those millions of people who have never known God or Christ are they to be condemned to a literal lake of fire and burned alive and this from the God who Loves us.

As for your neighbour did he Know what he was rejecting or was he like many in todays world they say I don't believe in god and when you ask the have you read the bible they say no they don't know who God is or what he has done or what he is doing they don't hate God they are just indifferent to him so how should God judge these people.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline John

Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2019, 07:25:29 AM »
Dave,
             You really do pick and choice verses that support your narrow understanding.
Is God Holy? Are his commands to be obeyed? What is the punishment deserved for not seeking out and obeying our creator God?
Jesus said in John 3 v 16-18 that there is eternal life fot those who believe and those who do not believe are already condemned. not will be but already are condemned

What biblical evidence do you have for the commonly believed but totally false idea that people are basicly good?


Did you notice in the Rev20:15 the key thing is whether ones name is written in the book of life quote:-
"15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

A vague belief in God is not enough as James so contemptuously comments ch 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that?and shudder.
Clearly something nonchristians do not do, which makes them worse then demons!

Note that Abrahams believe resulted in action and he was credited as being rightous.

God has not changed, just as he destroyed the man in the desert who went out on the sabeth to collect fire wood so he will eternaly punish those who will not serve him, there is no middle ground for the undecided we are either for God, which means loving him and seeking to be obedient or against him and hating him. If one is not Christian then one is actively opposing Christianity, there are no good people only sinners and saved sinners.

Offline Concerto

Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #71 on: March 14, 2019, 09:21:38 AM »
Dare I say it but God is sounding like an Ogre and probably someone he is not.
Reminds me of school in a really over strict unfair teachers class, where I was trying desperately hard not to sneeze at an exam time he wanted silience.When i did and sneezed in a tissue I was fierecely  told of and given 5 detentions.
God cant be like that a bully.
There was more to it than Adam and Eve eating a forbidden fruit it was their attitude. Probably like the man picking up the sticks there was more to it then that simple thing. Not like my sneeze. I had no attitude only absolute dread of the teacher.
No matter how sorry I could say he was fiercely relentless.
By the way i have looked up this thing about the lake of fire and people being tortured for all eternity. It looks like a teaching that came into the church that is passed down that is not necesarily correct. Plenty in the bible to show the symbolic language of annihilation of the body and soul and not every christian believes this. The anguish described is when they are dying .But christians tend to believe church teachings over the bible. The soul that sins will die. What is death ?