Author Topic: Creation or Evolution  (Read 2742 times)

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Offline davetaff

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2018, 02:02:02 PM »
God is talking to Himself - the standard Christian interpretation is that the pronoun "us" indicates a plurality within God (and the Hebrew word for God, 'Elohim', is a plural noun), which we understand as the Trinity.

Hi Deborah
Thank you for your input it's good to look at all aspects of a subject.
I looked up the name Elohim and found this.

.   Elohim
Elohim is a grammatically singular or plural noun for "god" or "gods" in both modern and Biblical Hebrew. Despite the-im ending common to many plural masculine nouns in Hebrew, the word is grammatically singular, and takes a singular verb in the Hebrew Bible when referring to God. When used with singular verbs and adjectives elohim is usually singular, "god" or especially, the God     


As we see Elohim can be singular and the bible tells us God is one so if God is one God when used the word our in Genesis it must mean himself and others.
As for the trinity does it not say the Father Son and Holy Spirit form the godhead  which again is one.
Then the Question arises is God a trinity as you know I have my doubts.
If we want to no what the Father looks like we need to look Christ of whom it is said.

.Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high       

So Christ is the express image of the Father I take this to mean when Christ is united with his body the church his bride.
So if Christ looks like this then so does the Father and when a God used the word our in Genesis it means him and the heavenly host.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Deborah

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2018, 03:25:28 PM »

So if Christ looks like this then so does the Father and when a God used the word our in Genesis it means him and the heavenly host.

Love and Peace
Dave

But we're made in the image of God, not in the image of "God and the heavenly host".
"So God created man in His own image." (Genesis 1:27) - not "in their image"! The 'our' in 'our image' in the previous verse must therefore refer to God alone.
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

Offline davetaff

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #90 on: August 21, 2018, 05:12:20 PM »
But we're made in the image of God, not in the image of "God and the heavenly host".
"So God created man in His own image." (Genesis 1:27) - not "in their image"! The 'our' in 'our image' in the previous verse must therefore refer to God alone.

Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply I think we need to look at the whole verse.

Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
   


It seams to me that God is male and female as is Christ at his second comeing who is the express image of God what will Christ look like he will be the head the church which will consist of untold thousands will be his bride and they will be joined together and become one and this is Man (mankind ) in Gods image.

all the heavenly host are Gods helpers the female part of God.


Love and Peace

Dave 

Offline Deborah

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #91 on: August 21, 2018, 10:03:54 PM »
Hi Dave, I hope you've got your tin hat ready!
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply I think we need to look at the whole verse.

Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
   


It seams to me that God is male and female
I think that's reasonable: both genders are in His image.

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as is Christ at his second comeing
Sorry, but Christ was incarnated as a man. And He hasn't changed since His resurrection. Why should He be any different at His second coming?

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who is the express image of God

That's Biblical. He has always been the image of God.

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what will Christ look like

We get a pretty good idea from John's vision in Revelation 1

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he will be the head the church

He's the Head of the Church now! (Ephesians 1:22,23)
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which will consist of untold thousands will be his bride and they will be joined together and become one

in the sense that husband and wife are one - still distinct, but together in a new way.

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and this is Man (mankind ) in Gods image
No - we were created in God's image right at the beginning. We are still in God's image now! (James 3:9) We don't have to wait for Christ to come.

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all the heavenly host are Gods helpers
The book of Hebrews (which we've just been reading through together, Dave!) tells us that they are "ministering spirits" - God's servants, in other words.

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the female part of God
The angels are part of God? No, no, no! We are going to rule over the angels ( I Corinthians 6:3) - we won't be ruling over God!

You're right about looking at the whole verse - but where did you get all this fanciful stuff? Not from this verse, nor from Genesis or anywhere else in the Bible.
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

Offline davetaff

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #92 on: August 22, 2018, 03:46:20 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply I have my tin hat firmly fixed do I need the full armour of God.

you said.
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Sorry, but Christ was incarnated as a man. And He hasn't changed since His resurrection. Why should He be any different at His second coming?     
I will let St Paul answer that one

1Co 15:49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
     


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That's Biblical. He has always been the image of God.     
Not o sure about that as you agreed that God had a female side what was Christs female side this was not created till after his resurrection and they will not be joined until his second coming then he will be in the image of the father.

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We get a pretty good idea from John's vision in Revelation 1       

yes we do and he is not like any earthly being is he is changed and he is still missing his body the church.

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He's the Head of the Church now!     
Yes of course he is i expressed my self badly sorry he has always been the head of the church and always will be.

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in the sense that husband and wife are one - still distinct, but together in a new way.     


yes I agree if I may add in the spirit and joined in Love.

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No - we were created in God's image right at the beginning. We are still in God's image now! (James 3:9) We don't have to wait for Christ to come.
     
adjusting my tin hat the only one at that time who was in the image of God was Israel.

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The book of Hebrews (which we've just been reading through together, Dave!) tells us that they are "ministering spirits" - God's servants, in other words         

And the church is Christ helper or servants if you like ( I have enjoyed our walk through Hebrew hope you have as well )
They are the female part of man in Gods image.

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The angels are part of God? No, no, no! We are going to rule over the angels  ( I Corinthians 6:3) - we won't be ruling over God!     
If the church is the female part of Christ and Christ is the express image of God the it stands to reason that the angels are God helpers his body of servants.
I Corinthians 6:3 says we will judge angels I take this to mean those who were bound in chains before the flood the other angels wont need to be judged.

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but where did you get all this fanciful stuff? Not from this verse, nor from Genesis or anywhere else in the Bible.   
everything I have said I have found in scripture Its how Gods word speaks to me our lord said Moses wrote about me and what did Moses write the first five books of the Bible so we need to ask our selves was it just the odd verse here and there or was almost everything he wrote concerning Christ even the creation account.

Christ is the most important subject in scripture he is the crowning glory of Gods creation the way I see it if as the standard church teaching the God created two human beings into existence a few thousand years ago and that was the end of the creation prosses then God has failed misrably.

But the God I love and worship cannot fail that is unthinkable so there has to be a better explanation and that is Creation is still on going that man in Gods image has still to appear.


Heb_1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
     


Love and Peace
Dave





Yes Gods servant his helpers and what was Eve but an helper for Adam

 






Offline TaraH

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #93 on: August 22, 2018, 04:07:06 PM »
Hi all,

I? ve given up trying to fit Evolution into the Creation narrative given in the bible.  @davetaff you have succeeded in confirming to me how right i was in virtually ignoring scripture.  KJV back in the cupboard 😆

Tara

Offline davetaff

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #94 on: August 22, 2018, 05:23:33 PM »
Hi all,

I? ve given up trying to fit Evolution into the Creation narrative given in the bible.  @davetaff you have succeeded in confirming to me how right i was in virtually ignoring scripture.  KJV back in the cupboard 😆

Tara


Hi Tara
@TaraH
I don't blame you its either or it cant be both and one has to make up ones mind which one you want to believe evolution that everything created its self with no outside help.
Or that someone created everything there is I have chosen the later its the only logical explanation all life comes from life no life comes from dead matter.
The only question is how long did it take God to create everything in the light of modern science and the age of the earth I would say a long time millions of  years he created the first one celled creature then divided it in two and continued the prosses until he had created all life on this planet.

Don't shelve your KJV it is the word of God is Life persevere you will find the answers your looking for. 

Mat 7:7  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8  For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
     
 

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline TaraH

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #95 on: August 22, 2018, 08:28:00 PM »
Hi @davetaff ,

I?ll go with the evidence, the bible has got it wrong.  Understandable considering those who contributed to writing it had no better explanation at the time.  To ignore evolution completely, as you seem set on doing, only because it doesn?t correlate with what it says in the bible, to me, isn?t logical nor realistic.  Your interpretations of the scripture all seem way off to me too, multiple Adams, one isn?t actually an Adam, it?s Israel, where on earth did all that come from?  Maybe you should take a step back, and stop analysing, making mountains out of molehills, and just read what?s there.  I?m not surprised that tin hat is on standby.

Tara