Author Topic: Creation or Evolution  (Read 2744 times)

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Offline Deborah

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #120 on: August 30, 2018, 11:40:24 AM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for the link very interesting I also have a link

https://biologos.org/blogs/archive/adam-is-israel

The same site but different subject it seams I am not on my own there are scholars that agree with me I found the last line interesting it reads.
 

Love and Peace
Dave

It is indeed an interesting article - but his argument depends on Genesis being written late, which I don't accept.

There are many different possible interpretations of Genesis that are compatible with evolution, and I don't agree with all of them!
https://biologos.org/blogs/archive/adam-is-israel
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

Offline davetaff

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #121 on: August 30, 2018, 02:19:44 PM »
It is indeed an interesting article - but his argument depends on Genesis being written late, which I don't accept.

There are many different possible interpretations of Genesis that are compatible with evolution, and I don't agree with all of them!

Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply the only point I was trying to make was there are others out there who say that Israel is Adam and it makes sense.

I know I have gone a lot further than the article I can't comment on the authors comments on when genesis was written I don't have the education for that but I do believe the bible is the inspired word of God and as such should be believed as we have it if it is only the writings of men then it has no value.
So like I have said Israel is the first Adam and Christ is the last Adam Christ follows the same path as Israel did.

Question what dose the phrase " son of man "  mean of which man was he the son of.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Offline Deborah

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #122 on: August 30, 2018, 08:29:06 PM »
Quote
Question what dose the phrase " son of man "  mean of which man was he the son of.

This is nothing to do with creation/evolution. I think you'd better start a new topic.
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

Offline davetaff

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #123 on: August 31, 2018, 03:02:42 PM »
This is nothing to do with creation/evolution. I think you'd better start a new topic.


Hi Deborah

thank you for your reply the reason I asked the question is because I believe it supports my contention that Israel is Adam if this is right then it means Israel is the first man in Gods image and our Lord came out of Israel this makes him the son of man.

You asked in the other thread about Able the reason I said what I did is the story of Cain and Able mirrors what happens between Israel and Christ.
Israel is the older brother who kills the younger brother which is Christ then God raises up Christ then Adam ( Israel ) receives another son in his place.
So this story in Genesis has been acted out in the history of Israel which is quite astounding considering how long ago it was written and people say there is no proof there is an abundance of proof the just choose to ignore it.


Love and Peace

Dave     

Offline davetaff

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #124 on: September 05, 2018, 02:40:47 PM »
Hi
well that fell on dead ears but never mind I will continue with another outlandish prophecy.
Noah had three sons Noah represents humanity who would produce three sons or groups of people the Jew the Christian and the muslim =  Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Ham saw his father naked and went and told his brothers the truth but his brothers did not want to know so went in backward and covered there father with a blanket thus covering the truth.

As a result of this Ham son Canaan was cursed

Gen 9:25  And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
   


can be read as the son of the father became a curse and a servant to his brothers this also mirrors Christ when he came into the world it's the same story it's played out in lives of ordinary people and mirrors a spiritual reality.


Love and Peace

Dave

   

Offline davetaff

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #125 on: September 19, 2018, 05:59:31 PM »
Hi
Came across this in my reading thought it was of interest.

Eph 5:31  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
   


the first time this is mentioned is in Genesis.

Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
     


So what is the great mystery Paul is talking about is it that what was said in Genesis was concerning Christ being joined to his bride at his second coming and they would become one.

This would support what I say that creation is still ongoing and the end of creation is Christ.


Love and Peace

Dave   

Offline francis drake

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #126 on: September 19, 2018, 09:19:25 PM »
Hi
Came across this in my reading thought it was of interest.

Eph 5:31  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
   


the first time this is mentioned is in Genesis.

Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
     


So what is the great mystery Paul is talking about is it that what was said in Genesis was concerning Christ being joined to his bride at his second coming and they would become one.

This would support what I say that creation is still ongoing and the end of creation is Christ.


Love and Peace

Dave
Dave Dave Dave???
These verses speak nothing about your anti scriptural obsession with an "ongoing creation"!

The problem with your "ongoing creation" notion is that it contradicts the whole idea of the fall. Look at the following verse.-
Rom8v 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now..

The above verses refer to the whole of creation, not just 99% of it.
Adam's rebellion caused the whole of creation to fall into the bondage of corruption.

If there had been any new creation since Adam's time, then that new creation could never have been subject to the fall and curse caused by Adam's rebellion against God, and could never be subject to judgement, and that new creation would not be cast out of the Garden like Adam was!

If that were truly the case, there would be constant mentioning throughout the scriptures, witnessing to such an anomaly.
And as everybody knows, there is no such witness, because the whole idea is just more Dave style mythology.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #127 on: September 20, 2018, 12:54:37 AM »
Both conflicting - and being in communion / agreeing in Christ/ at the same time..

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Here it is evidence that creation is reborn in us..


See : NEW CREATION WITHIN AN OLD CREATION - VIDEO

Here God /Jesus /commanded the old creation to be still/ to rest/.....

So someone can become a new creation in Christ - in the old creation which is perishig  [as are we]..


So I think you are both correct...



Quote
And as everybody knows, there is no such witness, because the whole idea is just more Dave style mythology.

Untrue - the witness is evident - the nearest scripture which is living - but made static in time by us - is ..

2 Corinthians 2:15  For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.


You cannot be perishing @francis drake along with creation...

If you are then you are not a new creation !

Dave is correct in his analogy of husband and wife and the Bride.. [in this instance] although it is only an image and not the perfect end [ not always applying to life - but a general pitctue]

Yeah I get the argument - but you are both correct - it's an image/metaphor/ but on the othere hand creation is bound and held in bondage..

Whereas Jesus commanded the waves and the weather - we command / but you are not Jesus / I think the underlying argunent is " I am not Jesus..."

I ask you to walk on water [in the old creation]

Of course God can recreate and is - if He could not then we are limiting God..

It was never just about us and our lives  ... God has to recreate now - if He could not then our entire universe and all that we know within our limitied life and knowledge could be void and have no future....


God is the same yesterday - today and forever...





https://www.youtube.com/embed/4Yvw_eV36sQ