Author Topic: Creation or Evolution  (Read 2740 times)

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Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #104 on: August 24, 2018, 12:23:31 AM »


Could I ask what area of science you are in - as it is an  enormous  variant and you would only study a certain field of science  ...  thanks   :thumbs_up:

Offline TaraH

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #105 on: August 24, 2018, 12:55:45 PM »
Hi @Tes Johnson ,

Ok, i?ll try and deal with some of your points,

Firstly a scientific theory, here?s a good definition from wikipedia of all places!

A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested, in accordance with the scientific method, using a predefined protocol of observation and experiment.Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge.


?I do not believe for one second that I evolved from a lower life form?.  Our genes offer evidence of how closely we are related to one another ? and of our species? connection with all other organisms.  This isn?t even up for debate anymore it?s so conclusively proven.

?I do not believe that there is no spiritual side to life? -  nor do I.  I?ve never intimated such.  I had an interesting conversation with a colleague, who said he couldn?t have been a lower life form because he has a soul.  However, in order to realise you have a soul, suggests a consciousness, self awareness, which is, more evidence of evolution, it?s not just about visible physical changes.



?The person of God would naturally believe in the Genesis account ... why would they not ??  Because it?s an archaic explanation, written by those who didn?t have the knowledge we have today.  It doesn?t detract from the validity of the underlying messages, nor the ?power of the word? if that?s your view, but a bit of common sense should prevail.  We no longer stone adulterers etc, etc, despite this being an apt punishment as written in the bible, we know this type of punishment was prevalent at the time, yet we have moved on and now know this is no longer acceptable.  Why is that ok, yet, question creation, and boom, you?re suddenly the devils daughter, daring to question a text written so long ago, by those who had no better explanation.


?I personally - would rather rely and trust in my creator - than trust in scientific data which only continues to glorify God [when it is known and not just theory]?
If scientific data glorifies god, why on earth would you not believe it, bit of a contradiction is it not?  I still think God had a hand in what we are today, if he is responsible for evolution -wow!

I?m not a cosmologist, so i?m no expert in this field.  The big bang happened though, and life in various forms was the result.  I still think god had a hand in all of this, it?s more impressive to me that he is responsible for the likes of evolution, than magically making a full blown human, then a mate and all life came from these 2 (which we know is genetic suicide).



?Their has to be a creator - because creation cannot create itself?.  The Big Bang was the catalyst, i?m banking on god for that, so he?s still the creator, just not in the way most think.  Your question does beg who created the creator though lol.

Tara




Offline TaraH

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #106 on: August 24, 2018, 01:04:09 PM »
Hi again @Tes Johnson ,

I?ve worked mainly in biology/anthropology and more recently social psychology.  I do have a degree in Theology and philosophy, but that was many, many moons ago and i hated it.

So to date my cv reads

Forensic Anthropology (msc)
Evolutionary Biology (msc)
Social Psychology (bsc)
Theology and Philosophy (ba)

Wish i?d done the psychology earlier in my life, it?s utterly fascinating.

Tara

Offline davetaff

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #107 on: August 24, 2018, 03:20:44 PM »
Hi @davetaff ,

The proof that the bible has got the creation narrative wrong, is over 150yrs of physical documented evidence, which has proven and indeed continues to prove evolution. Which is more proof than you have, that the writers of the bible were inspired by God. (I think they were inspired by God, but not dictated to, i?m just making a point).
You said
I only ignore evolution because it never happened
You clearly don?t understand evolution and all it entails.  I sincerely doubt you?ve even tried to understand, and yet i?m baffled by that.  The bizarre interpretations that you?ve managed to conjure up re multiple Adams etc, FROM scripture, i?m shocked that you can?t conjure up an equally bizarre explanation that would encapsulate both creation and evolution.  That should be a piece of cake.

Everything you say is backed by scripture, that in a nutshell is why i?ve steered clear of scripture, I too can come up with bizarre interpretations, all backed by scripture, anyone can.  You are not alone.  It?s estimated within Christianity there are over 40,000 sects/variations etc, i think if God wrote the bible, he?d have done a better job.

Tara

Hi Tara
I Tara I've just read your reply to Tes and it much of it we are saying the same thing can't understand why we are so far apart.
Evolution dose not prove the bible is wrong God said that he created the world and everything in it he dose not tell us how he did it or how long it took so if you wish to fit the time it took to evolve that's fine with me how we got here is not so important what is important is what happens next.

Quote
You clearly don?t understand evolution and all it entails.  I sincerely doubt you?ve even tried to understand, an     
 

I have spent many an hour trawling through internet site and a few books which give both sides of the story I must admit I am not very well educated left school at 15 in 1958 the conclusion I came to as to the theory of evolution was exactly that a theory seamed  to be a lot of well educated people fighting and squabbling over old bones trying to make a name for them selves very difficult to find a consensus of opinion.
This was some time ago and things may have changed have done a few google search of late but have not changed my mind.

As for Adam I have not conjured up anything  St Paul tells us quite plainly that there are two Adams.

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
       
 
This is my evidence for two Adams don't argue with me argue with St Paul.

Quote
Everything you say is backed by scripture, that in a nutshell is why I've steered clear of scripture, I too can come up with bizarre interpretations, all backed by scripture, anyone can.  You are not alone.  It?s estimated within Christianity there are over 40,000 sects/variations etc, i think if God wrote the bible, he'd have done a better job.     

Now there is 40,001 me and yes you are right which out of all these shall we follow my answer is the one that follows scripture as I have done everything I have said is from Gods word its the conclusion I came to when I put all other books and internet sites to one side and said to myself how dose Gods word speak to me so I picked up my bible and started at the beginning and read it from cover to cover and continue to do so.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

Offline TaraH

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #108 on: August 24, 2018, 06:33:15 PM »
Hi @davetaff ,

As long as you disregard the process and timeline of evolution, we remain poles apart.  As for arguing with St. paul, i?m not, i?m disagreeing with your interpretation, as a whole. 

Tara

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #109 on: August 25, 2018, 12:37:08 AM »
Hi again @Tes Johnson ,

I?ve worked mainly in biology/anthropology and more recently social psychology.  I do have a degree in Theology and philosophy, but that was many, many moons ago and i hated it.

So to date my cv reads

Forensic Anthropology (msc)
Evolutionary Biology (msc)
Social Psychology (bsc)
Theology and Philosophy (ba)

Wish i?d done the psychology earlier in my life, it?s utterly fascinating.

Tara

Hey @TaraH

Excellent maybe you are this person [although I am only linking you] @ https://www.1faith.co.uk/?topic=5609.msg68161#msg68161   maybe you are not this person ....

I see you are holding back as much as you can and have no need to prove yourself..

Excellent and welcome to 1faith.co.uk - I appreciate you input...


https://www.1faith.co.uk/?topic=5609.msg68161#msg68161

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #110 on: August 25, 2018, 01:03:58 AM »
Hi @Tes Johnson ,


?Their has to be a creator - because creation cannot create itself?.  The Big Bang was the catalyst, i?m banking on god for that, so he?s still the creator, just not in the way most think.  Your question does beg who created the creator though lol.

Tara


I like the link between Creation and Creator and who created God [Capital used]

That is the ultimate question is'nt it ?

REGARDING THE BIG BANG

How can a material exist in a  space - too little and it would not explode [it would merely be like a dwarf star and unregenerate - too much and it would implode to create a vacuum [BLACK HOLE]- it would have to be there in an exact measurement and  only by Someone putting it there...to create who we are today.. on the other hand a [white dwarf star ...] a  degenerate dwarf star - non regenerating... cannot recreate itself ....it is now dead.

How can material exist within a test tube without someone putting the material into it - at the exact measurement ?

The big bang theory sounds great - except that there would have to be an initial Creator of that mass to explode .. [in exact measurements]

DID GOD CREATE HIMSELF

I like this link to the Creator that you have made "Who created the Creator"

Scripture states that "God has always been and is the alpha and Omega" as in Revelation 22:13 -  A Being [I Am]Without beginning or ending of days...

Therefore only God can create a mass - "In the beginning"


I do not believe that science can answer the question of an Eternal Being - that cretaed a mass that started the "Big Bang"

CAUSE AND EFFECT

In the past I have argued with "cause and effect"  and almost all  other conceivable arguments..

I always go back to what /Who/ "created - the original material to create the big bang - because how can it exist "in the beginning"






Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Creation or Evolution
« Reply #111 on: August 25, 2018, 01:14:12 AM »
PS

It always amazes me when a life is transformed !

I draw you to 2 Corinthians 5:17 wow a big bang today ...

Amazing - a new life - not from anything we have done... [FROM NOTHING]

After all - we never created our new life did we ?

I find it fascinating how Christian scientists look at creation and how they view the cosmos and creation..


CONCLUSION

I have to conclude that there is no logic with God.

He is outside of our time and is greater than our thoughts [even Einstein's and Isaac Newton..]

You have to conclude that for every answer there are a hundred questions .

Many years ago - while searching the heart of God  "I came to the conclusion - that there is no conclusion  with God"

Cause and effect is invalid when God enters into a life and it carries on into eternity..


An degenerate dwarf star does not have life and cannot regenerate..

Acccording to science....

I bring you back to 2 Corinthians 5:17

The Spiritual - outside of science .

The unknown.. where science began..