Author Topic: Baptizum  (Read 214 times)

Description: Water or spirit

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Offline davetaff

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Baptizum
« on: June 30, 2018, 03:08:42 PM »
Hi
I started this thread due to a question asked by @Deborah247 on the Hebrews thread.
The subject has come  up a few times of late in different threads thought it may be an interesting subject.

. at 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire       

It seems to me that John is speaking of two baptisum's  one of water the other spiritual the water baptism represents what happens to Israel first with the flood second in the Red sea and thirdly in the Jordon.
All these were water baptism so what did John mean when he said we would be baptized with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
For myself I believe the water for this baptism is the word of God which washed us clean and in which we submerge our selves and symbolically die and then reborn into the body of Christ.
When we did like this our sins die with us we are babes in Christ we begin a new life if we sin  and confess our sins we will be forgiven.

Love and Peace
Dave



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Baptizum
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2018, 02:23:04 AM »
A  person can be baptised in water to witness their baptism of new birth in the Spirit..

A person can can be baptised as a witness but not have a regeneration of birth...

They can simply be going through a prrocess  [because their parents have done it]

They can also give theirn lives to Christ - but spend their lives doing the opposite...



Offline francis drake

Re: Baptizum
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2018, 01:41:58 PM »

It seems to me that John is speaking of two baptisum's  one of water the other spiritual the water baptism represents what happens to Israel first with the flood second in the Red sea and thirdly in the Jordon.

Israel didn't go through Noah's flood any more than you, I, Tes, or Deborah did.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Baptizum
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2018, 02:26:19 PM »
Israel didn't go through Noah's flood any more than you, I, Tes, or Deborah did.

Thank you Frances for spotting my mistake just checking to se if you were paying attention  :wink:

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline wincam

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Re: Baptizum
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2018, 09:20:09 PM »
A  person can be baptised in water to witness their baptism of new birth in the Spirit..

A person can can be baptised as a witness but not have a regeneration of birth...

They can simply be going through a prrocess  [because their parents have done it]

They can also give theirn lives to Christ - but spend their lives doing the opposite...



so here we have some of the things one must do that one cannot for by grace are we saved imho - wincam
carpe diem/semper fidelis

Offline francis drake

Re: Baptizum
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2018, 10:29:19 PM »
Thank you Frances for spotting my mistake just checking to se if you were paying attention  :wink:

Love and Peace
Dave
I have a "Dave alert" on my phone, it bleeps whenever you make a typo.  mobile:
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Baptizum
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2018, 03:29:44 PM »
Hi
moving on to the subject in hand I think a good place to start would be Romans 6

Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin.   


As we see from the above there is much more to baptisum than just sprinkling water on a babies head dose baby baptism have any value.

As Christ died so we die when we are baptised and our sins die with us  and we are reborn a new creature free from sin all our passed sins are forgotten we begin a new life always striving to keep the laws of Love as given to us by our Lord.


Love and Peace

Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: Baptizum
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 01:50:31 PM »
Hi
moving on to the subject in hand I think a good place to start would be Romans 6

Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin.   



As we see from the above there is much more to baptisum than just sprinkling water on a babies head dose baby baptism have any value.

As Christ died so we die when we are baptised and our sins die with us  and we are reborn a new creature free from sin all our passed sins are forgotten we begin a new life always striving to keep the laws of Love as given to us by our Lord.
Baptism is yet another crappy ekklesiastical word adopted by the church to mislead people. It just means "being made clean by full immersion."
As far as I am concerned, childhood baptism (as in "Christening") is unchristian.
Child dedication yes, baptism no.

But when your scripture speaks of being baptised into Christ, it doesn't mean the ceremony. Its actually referring to the spiritual reality of being "immersed" into Christ, as indeed are all those who are born from above.
Water baptism is just a visible demonstration of the invisible fact.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)