Author Topic: Abraham and Jesus  (Read 191 times)

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Offline Collin

Abraham and Jesus
« on: June 04, 2018, 05:49:08 PM »

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     You can find it written where the Lord told Abraham, that many nations would come from him and they would be numbered as the sands by the sea and they would be as the stars in the heavens. Then you see in the scriptures where Jesus was in the ship landing at the seaside and preaching to the people. It says to most they could not understand what he was saying and to those people, they were the ones numbered as the sands by the seaside but then there were those who did hear what he was saying and they were the ones as the stars in the sky . The ship is the church staying above the sea of disbelief and trying for their catch as the fishers of men and the land is where people are and the seeds of faith are planted, people already going to church. These things happen and even now and back then was the same. Abraham was back then represented as the carnal father. Everything has Spiritual meanings and even real life things happened and shows us what God is doing. Its all in how we perceive it.Even daily life things happening now to the world of Christianity.



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Offline francis drake

Re: Abraham and Jesus
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 06:24:49 PM »
     You can find it written where the Lord told Abraham, that many nations would come from him and they would be numbered as the sands by the sea and they would be as the stars in the heavens. Then you see in the scriptures where Jesus was in the ship landing at the seaside and preaching to the people. It says to most they could not understand what he was saying and to those people, they were the ones numbered as the sands by the seaside but then there were those who did hear what he was saying and they were the ones as the stars in the sky .
The two descriptions are clearly parallel and refer to the same people, not two different lots.
Genesis22v5The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16and said, ?I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.
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The ship is the church staying above the sea of disbelief and trying for their catch as the fishers of men and the land is where people are and the seeds of faith are planted, people already going to church. These things happen and even now and back then was the same. Abraham was back then represented as the carnal father. Everything has Spiritual meanings and even real life things happened and shows us what God is doing. Its all in how we perceive it. Even daily life things happening now to the world of Christianity.
Given that both believing Jews and believing Gentiles are descendants of Abraham by faith, it is daft to claim Abraham was a carnal father.
Gal3v7Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ?All nations will be blessed through you.? 9So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Collin

Re: Abraham and Jesus
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 07:34:50 PM »
The two descriptions are clearly parallel and refer to the same people, not two different lots.
Genesis22v5The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16and said, ?I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Given that both believing Jews and believing Gentiles are descendants of Abraham by faith, it is daft to claim Abraham was a carnal father.
Gal3v7Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ?All nations will be blessed through you.? 9So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

      No, the two discriptions clearly show two types of people and it was the Jews that were numbered as the sands by the seashore and the sons of Jacob were as the stars but they were all people of the bible or word of God and people who seeking God or found God. When it is said don't build your house upon the sands but upon the rock, it isn't talking about sand, it means don't build you church upon the teachings of the Jews who did not believe in Christ.

Offline francis drake

Re: Abraham and Jesus
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 09:11:04 PM »
      No, the two discriptions clearly show two types of people and it was the Jews that were numbered as the sands by the seashore
So the sand represents just the tribe of Judah then?
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and the sons of Jacob were as the stars
But the sons of Jacob represents all 12 tribes including Judah? Doesn't make any sense!
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but they were all people of the bible or word of God and people who seeking God or found God.
According to John1v1, the "Word of God" is Christ himself, not the bible!
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When it is said don't build your house upon the sands but upon the rock, it isn't talking about sand, it means don't build you church upon the teachings of the Jews who did not believe in Christ.
This may be true, but it has nothing to do with what God said to Abraham.

You have presented no evidence whatsoever for your notions Collin. It makes no sense and has no value.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Collin

Re: Abraham and Jesus
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2018, 08:28:51 AM »
So the sand represents just the tribe of Judah then?But the sons of Jacob represents all 12 tribes including Judah? Doesn't make any sense!According to John1v1, the "Word of God" is Christ himself, not the bible!This may be true, but it has nothing to do with what God said to Abraham.

You have presented no evidence whatsoever for your notions Collin. It makes no sense and has no value.

     It won't make sense if you do not want to understand.When Joseph had the dream and the sun and the stars bowed down to him Jacob said to him , is it right that your brothers bow down to you and me and your mother. So there he is saying he is likened unto as the son his mother as the moon and the brothers as the stars. You don't want to learn. You are comfortable with what you have and Jesus said a few parables about that.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Abraham and Jesus
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2018, 11:06:28 AM »
     You can find it written where the Lord told Abraham, that many nations would come from him and they would be numbered as the sands by the sea and they would be as the stars in the heavens. Then you see in the scriptures where Jesus was in the ship landing at the seaside and preaching to the people. It says to most they could not understand what he was saying and to those people, they were the ones numbered as the sands by the seaside but then there were those who did hear what he was saying and they were the ones as the stars in the sky . The ship is the church staying above the sea of disbelief and trying for their catch as the fishers of men and the land is where people are and the seeds of faith are planted, people already going to church. These things happen and even now and back then was the same. Abraham was back then represented as the carnal father. Everything has Spiritual meanings and even real life things happened and shows us what God is doing. Its all in how we perceive it.Even daily life things happening now to the world of Christianity.

Hi Collin
I hope you won't be offended but to an ordinary uneducated person it seems your posts are written in tongues difficult to understand.
You say you are a teacher of so what you say must be understood by those who read what you say.
I do agree with you that we are in a spiritual age but that does not mean it has to be unintelligible.
I believe God's word can be understood by everyone if they set their mind's to it.

Love and Peace
Dave


Offline Collin

Re: Abraham and Jesus
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2018, 12:38:04 PM »
Hi Collin
I hope you won't be offended but to an ordinary uneducated person it seems your posts are written in tongues difficult to understand.
You say you are a teacher of so what you say must be understood by those who read what you say.
I do agree with you that we are in a spiritual age but that does not mean it has to be unintelligible.
I believe God's word can be understood by everyone if they set their mind's to it.

Love and Peace
Dave


            See, you are wrong there again, It isn't for all to understand, if that was the case why would we need ministers.When Jesus told his disciples something he always spoke in parables and they needed explaining, Why? So they could learn and understand  the word. Why does it say all things in secret will be revealed now? How is the word alive if it is just words and letters. The word of God is hidden and seeking it is our labor.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Abraham and Jesus
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 12:58:22 PM »

            See, you are wrong there again, It isn't for all to understand, if that was the case why would we need ministers.When Jesus told his disciples something he always spoke in parables and they needed explaining, Why? So they could learn and understand  the word. Why does it say all things in secret will be revealed now? How is the word alive if it is just words and letters. The word of God is hidden and seeking it is our labor.

Hi Collin
Thank you for you reply

.    26  Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

 27  What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops     


We see from the above that although Christ taught them in secret our Lord commander them to shout it from the house tops this is the gospel that is preached to the whole world.

Love and Peace
Dave

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